To expect a flat that is habitable after shelling out £12k to move in

[orangefusion]

I have posted this in legal but for traffic I am posting here too. I am so upset...

...I have just returned from dropping my son off at his first flat as a tennant- he is in his second year at uni having had halls last year. The flat was found by his friends while he was away over the summer and he did not see it until today.
The place is unibhabitable. There is six inches of damp above all the skirting boards, one bedroom is "being treated" the floor is soaking concrete, the whole place stinks of damp- the air is so humid that nothing will dry, it is insecure and the windows need to be open to breathe but it is a basement in New Cross- there are no bars or proper window locks so the windows have to be kept shut. The b***d landlord has taken 6 months rent off the boys, and a £2100 deposit. There was a dead rat in the bin which had clearly been a live rat when it climbed in. I had to leave him there but I wanted to bring him home again or check him into a hotel.
What rights have these poor kids got? The place is disgusting and I am at a loss to know how calling the agent is going to make any difference because they knew it was like this when they let it. They will fob me off with platitudes but they do not have to live there.
I want to cry- he was so excited about living out of halls but this is just so awful.
Any legal bods out there who can suggest the best thing for me to do to help?

It is a bit much to expect some understandably naive 19 year olds to just know how to sort this out. The OP is giving them a master class in how to sort it out, efficiently and with grace.

We all learn from others, after all.

'rich middle class' jibes are just totally out of place.

Well done OP. Hope you get some progress with the LL. This is not helicoptering at all. Most teenagers could not sort this out - best hope is that they see your stress and the work that has to go into sorting it out and resolve to learn from it for next year.

I always think that adult life is 90pc organising and managing and labouring and 10pc enjoying fruits of said labour and that children start at the other end of that ratio and gradually take on more and more responsibility until they reach full adulthood. Uni years probably tip the balance into adulthood iyswim. Lots of fun but lots more self reliance and work. Hope son is appreciating your help and silently vowing to find the flat himself next year.

FFS Steeleye, have some compassion, are you a parent? Would you genuinely sit by and do nothing while some crook of a landlord did this to your family members.

I'm 38, water came through my ceiling last week. Who did I call immediately? Not my DH, not my brother, not a plumber... I called my Dad. I didn't know what to do and I knew my Dad would help me. He told me to turn my water off at the mains and how to do this. He asked me some questions. Told me to ring my insurance company. He gave me some advice and told me what to say to the plumber when I called them. Why? Because I had no experience of this and he did. That's what families do for each other. Is that infantilisation? I'm a 38 year old employed research scientist by the way which is remarkable because clearly I should be unemployed like all these unemployable youths you talk about because I needed someone else's help, experience and guidance.

The OP is trying to help her son. He will learn from this. He will learn he has a mum who is there for him, who he can rely on when he needs her and he'll learn to be more property and landlord aware in the future. Give the OP a break!

Good job op, hope he's reasonable with you tomorrow

Interesting , I got the gas cert from the agent, I requested it this morning. It was dated today and forwarded and signed by someone who has an email address the same as the agent and landlord (I.e. Xxxx@Sedevelopments) I called ds who said a gas man had come round this afternoon. So they had no Gas cert before I requested it. Another item to add to the chronology of awfulness, possibly more evidence of lack of proper safety checks as two of the boys have been in the place for two weeks.

that really smells - and not of gas!

look on the gas safe website to confirm the registration of the person who did the cert. Don't hesitate to ring gas safe in the morning if in doubt.

still an offence not to have had it done BEFORE letting.

ps and get them to go buy a CO detector FIRST THING tomorrow.

I've just checked and the engineer is registered. However, as you say, special, it should have been given to the tenants before they moved in.

Leverage I hope to get them out and get our money back.

I find it comical people are recommending not doing anything. that's got to be the most useless advice for two reasons. 1) it's your money, and you are going to be the best at getting it and 2) they are 18 year olds! they are going to have difficulty sorting this out. I say this as someone who had to deal with a few troublesome LL (though not nearly this bad) at 18 - 20.

EHO always ask about gas cert as it's a legal offence not to have and it's much more straightforward than arguing over damp etc (not that there's much to argue about here!). I would also therefore ask for a copy of the Energy Certificate Performance, this is also a legal requirement so adds fuel to your fire. You can also look yourself on the EPC register to see if they have one,

www.epcregister.com/searchReport.html

Hope they come down like them on a ton of bricks. I wouldn't be happy with my DC sleeping there, I would be advising him to look for alternative accommodation, and add this to your claim against the landlord. The relevant body will take action against him for gas cert, breaches of the HHSRS but I have a feeling (but hopefully I'm wrong) you may have to use legal action to get the rent back so I would keep receipts for any expenses incurred just in case.

You probably already know all this so apologies if you do but good luck and keep us posted!

This might be of use, I'm afraid I don't know much about London as it appears to have special regulations in addition to the requirements of the HHSRS but have also linked an overview of the HHSRS. I said before I feel your DS should be doing all this but if you are, make sure he knows how much shit you are sorting out on his behalf!

www.parliament.uk/Templates/BriefingPapers/Pages/BPPdfDownload.aspx?bp-id=sn01917

www.arla.co.uk/info-guides/london-rental-standard.aspx

a small ray of legality in all this, so at least the boiler is probably not dangerous. Thanks for the update.

Thanks Yes, very useful stuff. I strongly suspect we may have to use legal to get money back too.

I have checked the EPC and there is a certificate for the house from 2011, but not the basement flat. If you google search the house it shows it all covered in scaffolding from 2012. So I suspect that it requires new EPCs.
www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.4755227,-0.0328066,3a,75y,268.52h,93.58t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s7SNX0MdP2Wuc8zKbif9yFg!2e0!6m1!1e1

No news yet from the landlord but son has texted to say EHO are going in tomorrow which is great news.

Great. Can you prime DS with a list of things to make sure he shows them, and questions to ask?

Christ, I wonder if it's even registered as a dwelling?

The EHO will know what to look for, don't worry.

Are they looking for somewhere else to live? Even if they want to stay, (and they shouldn't really) notice May well be served on the landlord prohibiting them from letting it. I would start trying to get somewhere else ASAP. If you could stand as guarantor, they may not need to pay up front again as it I know it may take some time to get your money back. Obviously check the legals, if you are guaranteeing the whole rent it's a huge risk but if you only have liability for DS it may be ok.

Crooks, I hope they get what they deserve!

Hi again Yes.

Two of the boys have dgps in London so could go there in the event of needing to move quickly, I want them out now but we think we need to have EHO backing before we break the contract on our part. They do need to start looking but we will wait to see if EHO does condemn the place.

The agents wanted me to guarantee for this place but I refused because they wanted my bank statements and payslips and I would have been guaranteeing the whole lot, that is why I went (why we all went) for the 6 months up front option.

I understand about the upfront but it's a lesson learned for them (and parents sadly), if you're going to shell out that sort of sum, or any sum for a property:

it should always be paid directly to the agent (an ARLA registered!)and never ever the landlord

Upon paying the deposit you should always be given proof of how it's being held or registered ie which scheme

always only pay and sign when they are satisfied with the condition of the property and any outstanding "to do" work written in to the lease

And after seeing gas safety cert and EPC.

But you know all this now, right?

Let us know what EHO say?

No news from the landlord's visit? Probably wondering how best to cover his arse errors in procedure.

Nothing from the landlord, he said he would call. Ds says that as far as he knows LL has not been round (he has been out since 2). I will call the LL later and see what he has to say. Otherwise it will be see what EHO says and movement will start to happen after that.

I spoke to Killtox (the damp company) today and they said that they would not recommend anyone living in a place they were treating and that it would take some time for it to dry out - depending on the ventilation. So even the LL's own damp company say that they will have to move out while the work is being done (I asked very generally and did not say specifically that I was asking about this property).

I just spoke to the landlord. He was "so busy today" that he could not make it round there.

He asked for a day to sort it all out. I said yes because I know EHO are going in tomorrow (I bloody hope they dont let us down) and then we will have the offical line rather than the innefectual bleating of me.

LL said he would work out a compensation package when I reminded him that the boys cannot live there while any work goes on.

I might as well have been singing "somewhere over the rainbow" for all the good talking to Mr S Malida of SE Developments seems to do.

But calm, calm. EH tomorrow and preparing the boys for a move I think.

Hey ho. KOKO

God, fingers crossed for you

You're doing well OP. Your boy is lucky to have you. The LL is a crook, hopefully EHO will do something.

OMG it sounds like it is indeed the same one. He tried soft soaping me earlier.

I am now resolute- it is out of there and court procedings from tomorrow.

ww3.wandsworth.gov.uk/news/pressreleasedetail.asp?id=5738

OMG