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AIBU?

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Original poster

to think it's about time we got rid of the Monarchy?

313 replies

clayspaniel · 20/09/2014 13:55

Now that the Scotland referendum is over, does anyone else think it is now time to have a complete constitutional reform, and discontinue the role of the Queen and all her associated hangers-on?

OP posts:
trufflesnout · 22/09/2014 01:21

I've got the main ones against the monarchy for you here if you don't want to have to bother RTFT.

  • unelected head of state, rite of birth
  • cost (the 56p per person argument is widely regarded as baloney, and even if it were true then 56p x the population = just over 35 million per year)
  • no true democracy - because we don’t get a say in who represents us
  • they have the ability to influence our laws
  • and if that wasn't enough, they have the ability to influence our laws and are out of touch with modern day Britain
  • they are meant to remain neutral but are unaccountable if they choose not to be. One of the main sticking points is Charles, since he has a reputation alongside sending his black spider memos. The queen chooses not to monopolise her unaccountability in this way and is definitely neutral - which is why she is so popular.
  • question of the family’s ability to represent modern Britain - marrying a ‘commoner’ is still cited as a great step forward for the monarchy. This makes it evident that they are much more dated than the rest of British society.
  • to a lesser extent, the desperate celebrity culture emerging among young royals

Another sticking point is falsified arguments, such as tourism. The argument that they bring in more in tourism than they take from taxes is widely regarded as tosh too and it’s why France is mentioned so often.
Frances's tourism industry is stronger than ours, partly because they have abolished the monarchy and can open those buildings for public use.

So far arguments for the monarchy have consisted of

  • it's tradition
  • I like them
  • I like the pomp
  • they unite us

TBF I do understand the "they unite us" argument to an extent, but considering "us" = the commonwealth which stemmed from the Empire (ie. our land grabbing and enslavement of others), I don't think it's a particularly positive unity.

Caff2 · 22/09/2014 02:29

I'm absolutely a republican tbh, but I don't understand how those who are royalists can't see how the idea that Kate Middleton is anything other than an ordinary mender of the public is ridiculous.

Caff2 · 22/09/2014 02:30

Mender? Member, I meant.

GarlicSeptimus · 22/09/2014 02:58

It'd be nice if she could mend the public!

curiousgeorgie · 22/09/2014 07:59

I think as others have said, the monarchy is what makes us unique. They're a huge part of our identity as a country and I for one, really like being a part of this country and its rich history.

I would have come on to say they bring in far more in tourism that they cost, but I think it's been done to death.. (And might not be true Wink)

Abra1d · 22/09/2014 08:06

Remember the turnout to her jubilee? Millions of people on the Thames it was spectacular no other country can do pomp and ceremony like us - this is an embarrassment to our country.

Ha! You don't know how funny this sanctimonious little comment is.

Did you find people enjoying the Olympics embarrassing, too?

skinnysoyvanillalatte · 22/09/2014 08:10

Can I just ask where this pomp and ceremony is? I can think of the changing of the guards but after that????

AnnaFiveTowns · 22/09/2014 08:15

Yes, they should go - but if we had a referendum then the Daily Mail et al would all get behind them and the sheeple would probably vote for the parasites to stay.

Original poster
clayspaniel · 22/09/2014 08:20

Abra1d there was nothing embarrassing about people enjoying the Olympics! It was the so-called pomp and ceremony that royalists claim to be so proud of that I was referring to!

OP posts:
writtenguarantee · 22/09/2014 09:02

I would have come on to say they bring in far more in tourism that they cost, but I think it's been done to death.. (And might not be true wink)

so i guess the argument that remains is you like them?

TBF I do understand the "they unite us" argument to an extent, but considering "us" = the commonwealth which stemmed from the Empire (ie. our land grabbing and enslavement of others), I don't think it's a particularly positive unity.

India is part of the commonwealth and is a republic. The queen has no function in India.

Also, judging by this thread, the queen doesn't even unite us in Britain. Seems highly divisive to me.

I think as others have said, the monarchy is what makes us unique.

and as others have pointed out, the netherlands, denmark, spain etc etc etc also have monarchies.

zen1 · 22/09/2014 10:54

You do realise that a lot of polititians that rise to the higher ranks come from 'privilaged' births?

Um, yes and I resent them as well. But they have been voted into office, the Monarchy haven't.

TheCraicDealer · 22/09/2014 11:34

I’m pretty pro-monarchy because I love the history attached to the whole thing, and I like the fact that there’s a sense of continuity in that they’re still there today. People call them ‘parasites’ and that, but I don’t envy them. Not being able to have any privacy or much choice over what you do with your life seems like a pretty tough gig, doesn’t matter what assets you have on paper.

Most of the countries that have abolished their monarchy since the beginning of the 20th Century did so in the midst of a revolution, civil or World War. Is there is any precedent for a monarchy being abolished in a time of peace?

Crowen85 · 22/09/2014 11:40

Entitled to your opionion but nope I love the royals. They are a huge part of our history.

rainbowinmyroom · 22/09/2014 11:42

Does anyone feel a warm, fuzzy glow of unity at the sight of the gormless-looking Wills and his mute, simpering sidekick? Really?

rainbowinmyroom · 22/09/2014 11:44

Aw, poor things, no privacy (rolls eyes). They can easily give up their titles, you know. No one forces them to do this.

writtenguarantee · 22/09/2014 12:17

Most of the countries that have abolished their monarchy since the beginning of the 20th Century did so in the midst of a revolution, civil or World War. Is there is any precedent for a monarchy being abolished in a time of peace?

don't know. it's usually hard to get people to give up their privileges voluntarily, so there is usually some mess to sort out. but I don't know the answer.

Sallyingforth · 22/09/2014 12:18

Queen Elizabeth, or President Blair?

No contest!

Viviennemary · 22/09/2014 13:31

In your opinion. Which is why we are supposed to live in a democracy.

Butterpuff · 22/09/2014 13:49

Love posh eccentric people. And I can afford to pay my bit towards them. I have the brains and good fortune to make enough money not to envy them so I can cheerfully enjoy the Royals so long as they are willing to do the job.

SteamTrainsRealAleandOpenFires · 22/09/2014 15:28

President Blair is not a particularly pleasant thought but at least it would be democratic.

Until he decides to become "president for life".

rainbowinmyroom · 22/09/2014 15:36

Why are people juxtaposing the end of monarchy with the institution of a presidency? It's not a like for like comparison. Presidency is part of an entirely different form of government from Britain's.

Numanoid · 22/09/2014 15:53

YANBU, I'd rather not waste my taxes on keeping the Queen and co. in overpriced bling and the countless other overpriced comforts they seem to require.

Dapplegrey · 22/09/2014 15:54

Yabu

Original poster
clayspaniel · 22/09/2014 16:51

Butterpuff it's nothing to do with envy of their wealth or not being able to afford them. Neither is the argument against the 'posh eccentric people' you love. It's about whether or not people think an elected head of state is better than a hereditary one. With the current system you can't just skip over the ones you don't like, you're stuck with the next in line and so on - for their whole life!!

OP posts:
Butterpuff · 22/09/2014 17:30

I see your point clayspaniel and I would not like a hereditary head of state with actual powers, but we have the elected government for that.

The Royals just wander about smiling at people, opening things, give some press coverage to various charityies and generally making those of us that like them smile. I went to a garden party once, it was fabulous, wouldn't have been the same if it was hosted by the PM rather than the Queen. There is a kind of fairy tale grin that they give to people like me.

I like all the daftness about the Royal family. I like that they are born to duty and seem to take that duty very seriously (well, most of them). I like that they have little agenda. They just seem harmless, yes expensive, but then all the best frivolous things in life are expensive.

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