'I don't care what the inside of the school looks like.' Is one of us being unreasonable?

[PlumpPartridge]

Ds1 will start primary school next Sept and one of our 3 catchment schools is offering parents the opportunity for a snoop look around in November. I mentioned this to DH and suggested we go. He said that I am welcome to go if I want as he doesn't particularly care what it looks like (it's rated outstanding so no concerns to speak of).

My argument for going: Ds1 will spend a huge amount of time there and I'd like to be able to share in his new world a bit and to be able to visualise what he's talking about and where he spends his days. I feel that this is minimal taking-an-interest in my son's life.

Dh's argument for not going: the interior of the school doesn't matter, but the content of the curriculum does. He's sure he'll see stuff in due course if Ds goes there (dh will do some pick-ups/drop-offs as we both work FT) and doesn't see the point oflooking at Iit before then.

I think he's a bit emotionally insensitive (to me and ds's future needs), he thinks I am worrying over nothing. Is one of us BU? Both? Neither?

'Outstanding' means sweet fa if the place doesn't suit your child.
Children perform to their best when parents take an active interest in school. Your DH's attitude / actions counters his "interest" in whether or not it is a good school.

You need to go and have a look.

You pick up a lot about a school just from watching it in action. Can you hear teachers shouting? (you'd be amazed...), good behaviour in the corridors? Quality of the display work? Are the senior staff welcoming and open?

I chose my dc's school on the basis of what I saw on my visit, rather than on where the school was in the local league tables and it turned out to be the right thing to do.

Of course you want to go see it and talk to the teachers and such!

Our first choice school for DS became last choice after I walked around it on it's open day.

Go, leave DH at home if he really doesn't care about your DS' education beyond 'so long as the rating is good'!

I don't think either of you are being unreasonable but I can understand why you would be disappointed that your DH isn't showing a bit more of an interest. My DH would probably be the same if that's any comfort!

As long as one of you goes I don't see why you both need to.

Of course, he doesn't need to go. But he needs to be interested in whether your son likes the feel of it/ gets interested in ut / likes a teacher etc

My dc ended up at a primary rated 'satisfactory' which they loved and did well at as opposed to the 'outstanding' one they left. We knew the second school was right for them the moment we walked in, we both had the same gut feel.

You need to pick the one that you feel would be best for your particular child.

Your DH is being U. When my SIL looked for a new school for my nephew they went to have a look round an outstanding school but discarded it after seeing the inside of the building because it didn't feel particularly nice - very few pictures on the walls and very dull.
His new school was also outstanding but was also bright and cheerful on the inside.

He's being UR.

You need to see the school, meet the staff and get a feel for the place. For example my friend went to see a school rated as outstanding but discovered that she couldn't stand the head teacher and also that the school was over crowded with at least 2 classses being held in the school hall which had been partioned meaning it coulddn't be used for anything else. None of that came over in the ofsted report. She also said the library had shelves so high that she couldn't reach some of them let alone the children who needed to use them.

I went to look at a different outstanding school and while I didn't find anything like my friend did I didn't send dd because the whole place felt miserable and the reception children looked sad. Nothing tangible.

Go along. Really ofsted don't tell you everything.

YABU. As long as one of you goes, that is all that matters. As for the comment Children perform to their best when parents take an active interest in school. erm, says who? This is just made up. Children perform at their best when they have good, loving parents and go to a school with good teachers. How much interest parents take in the school really is neither here nor there.

Open days are little do do with looking at the physical interior and everything about finding out about the ethos and atmosphere of the school , their approach to the curriculum, discipline, inclusion etc. it gives you a chance to see the displays and find out what the school's strengths are in terms of art, music, sport etc. how strict and formal are they ? How nurturing and relaxed? Do the children seem confident, well behaved and happy?

He's being an arse. Does he really think that all that happens on at school open event is that you see the interior?

If he doesn't care about things like ethos and attitude, let alone what the facilities actually look like, the work on display and, if it's during the school day, the little indicators like how the pupils are behaving and whether the loos stink (btw, all school loos smell immediate after breaks, but they shouldn't be left stinking all day, even if there's no-one to clean thoroughly it's a good indicator for all-round attitude if someone goes in to flush every loo and chuck away strewn paper); well, you either let him opt out of ranking your preferences, or you torture him until he grasps some of the essentials.

BTW, would he buy a car based on web information, or would he want a test drive?

If you we're going to have no choice about where your son goes I'd see his point.

But, outstanding does not mean friendly, welcoming, calm, nurturing or right for your child. If you have a choice, 'feel' is one of the best and strongest things to base it upon.

An ex-primary teacher who's done supply work made this point strongly. Some schools felt calm, kind and as though everything was under benevolent control. Others felt tense, or a bit neglected, as though something might go wrong at any moment. This character bore little resemblance to OFSTED rating.

The people who have been most definite about the value of visiting schools and the real differences between them have all been teachers.

No reason why both of you should go. By all means go and visit, but if you're already decided on that school, as he says he'll have plenty of opportunities to see where his child spends his week.

This is very interesting - I've never been to school in the Uk for more than a few months and so my frame of reference is limited. I'm a one for getting a feel of a place too, which may explain why I feel strongly about this.

Also, ds1 is my pfb and he can be a sensitive little soul. I want him to be comfortable in this new place. Ds2 would be fine anywhere, in contrast

We have three options: one outstanding and close, one satisfactory and further away, and one that's just out of special measures but our good friend works there and ds1 loves her and could be in her class.

We're a bit torn!

Your DH is BU.

What if it is a cold school focussing on getting through an Ofsted? I went to a school which was obsessed with targets and not ashamed to be so. It made my blood run cold (but other parents loved it!)

Would he buy a house because it had the right number of bedrooms and was in the right area?

'Feel', dippy though it sounds, is important.

X-posted with AuntieStella - car analogy probably better for DHs!

On paper I wouldn't have picked DSs school in a million years. When we moved we couldn't get into the 'outstanding' school in our road, we got a place at DSs school. After reading the Ofstead report I went to look round with trepidation. They set every niggle & worry to rest - a year on and I couldn't be happier.
The school has a mixed bag of kids hence the lower results BUT they tailor there teaching & attention to the kids individually so there are some seriously amazing results when you look in context & some very happy kids.
The outstanding MC school we didn't get into has had some real issues due to management that make me extremely happy that I've not had to be involved with.
You need to go and get a feeling for what the school is like past the label.

Your DH is BU! The curriculum will be the same in all the schools - they all follow the national curriculum, unless they're free schools or academies that have gone off piste.

Going inside a school means you can look at things like whether the children's work is displayed in hallways, whether notices from teachers have spelling mistakes on (I'm afraid this happens), whether the children are chatty or quiet, is there a buzz in the classroom, do the teachers shout - loads of stuff. I remember the school our DD eventually went to wasn't rated highly locally but the moment I walked through the door I had a sense of a school that was happy and welcoming. And so it proved - DD had a wonderful experience there.

You need to go and have a look at both schools. Don't be fooled into thinking 'outstanding' actually means outstanding. All it means is that OFSTED liked what they saw on a particular day. In my son's first school, it meant the HT was very experienced at pulling the wool over their eyes while she systematically failed countless children. My son was in two schools with outstanding status and they did masses of harm to him.

As others have said, have a look and feel of the environment, and opt for the one that meets your child's needs best. It isn't necessarily the one with the shiniest label.

We have three local school. One outstanding. Two Good. We visited all three and there were some interesting things to find out "from the inside".

Outstanding School. - very well run and organised. A posh bunch of "management" offices. No sign of the head. Or deputy. Shown around by an admin (lovely) lady. To me it felt far, far to business like. Cold. Efficient, yes - but a welcoming start for my sensitive pfb? No so sure (Since learnt no parents ever see the head and if the head is wandering about she knows very few of the children's names).

Good school 1 - was a faith school - and faarrrrr more "faithy" on the inside thant any website/prospectus. Too faithy for us.

Good School 2 - Had a village school feel - same size as outstanding but not open plan. Head showed us round. Head knew the names of pupils as we were walking around. Friendly and warm feel - like a family.

So yes, you do need to look inside. To see inside. To get a feel. Would you DH chose a house just on what it says on paper? No. Surely the school your son goes to is more important?

(FWIW we ended up unable to get into any of our local schools - we would have chosen the second good school - but the above is just to show you need to visit).

I'd definitely of and have a look at it.

We had a choice of 2 primary schools - 1 outstanding, 1 good.

I went and had a really good look round both. I hated the outstanding school. It felt like a prison. It didn't feel happy or caring.

The good school was so much nicer. It was bright, friendly and welcoming. It was just lovely and I got such a good feel from it

Yes, Ofsted is important, as is the curriculum and the quality of teaching, but for me it wasn't the be all and end all. If my child is going to spend 6 hours a day there, I want them to be happy and comfortable as well.

And surprisingly, the good school was oversubscribed year after year, where the outstanding school always had spare spaces

How likely are you to get into any of the schools?
I didn't look round any, as despite having 3 "choices" on the application form, I knew which school we would get if I put it anywhere on the list, and I also knew which school we would get if I didn't put anything sensible on the list.
What was the point in going to see what he wasn't going to get (the "didn't get anything on the list school" was out due to logistics).