'I don't care what the inside of the school looks like.' Is one of us being unreasonable?

[PlumpPartridge]

Ds1 will start primary school next Sept and one of our 3 catchment schools is offering parents the opportunity for a snoop look around in November. I mentioned this to DH and suggested we go. He said that I am welcome to go if I want as he doesn't particularly care what it looks like (it's rated outstanding so no concerns to speak of).

My argument for going: Ds1 will spend a huge amount of time there and I'd like to be able to share in his new world a bit and to be able to visualise what he's talking about and where he spends his days. I feel that this is minimal taking-an-interest in my son's life.

Dh's argument for not going: the interior of the school doesn't matter, but the content of the curriculum does. He's sure he'll see stuff in due course if Ds goes there (dh will do some pick-ups/drop-offs as we both work FT) and doesn't see the point oflooking at Iit before then.

I think he's a bit emotionally insensitive (to me and ds's future needs), he thinks I am worrying over nothing. Is one of us BU? Both? Neither?

Even if you feel you have "no choice" a visit is useful. You may spot gaps you can address, or even find it is so dire that you'd rather HE, move, him travel for miles, get a lodger to afford private etc. alternatively it could be so great that you can really enthuse even before their first day.

I have known people from quite impoverished backgrounds swap council houses and even appeal to get their DC into the right school. And Free schools are often set up by parents who have looked and then been worried about their options.

I didn't choose my DCs schools just on a visit, but the visit was very important. After all the first consideration is location, I know of a lovely primary in Devon, and a great secondary in Durham, we didn't bother to visit either of those.

I suppose it depends on how much weight you attach to tangibles and intangibles in your day-to-day life. If someone/something is making me uncomfortable then I tend to leave or avoid them, so the intangibles probably matter more to me than you.

I agree. I prefer to make decisions based on tangible facts. I avoid making them based on first impressions or "gut feelings" as I think that it can lead to the wrong decision (whether or not you ever realise it).

I agree he should go and look but tbh disagree that you can tell loads about a school by looking round. I have looked round one outstanding school and two good schools. They all seemed nice. I don't feel like tramplyng over anyone's granny to get into any of them. The biggest difference was in the general state of repair of the buildings. One is brand new and gorgeous, one is really crumbly and the third is somewhere in between. That seems like the wrong basis on which to make a decision though. The biggest negatives for all of them were the big class sizes and lack of playing fields but that is life. One seemed more formal and the other more play based but that may just have been the time I visited. It's irrelevant really anyway as I only have a choice of one plus an outside shot at another. If they seemed awful I would move but I think choosing a preference on the best info an available, accepting the outcome whatever happens and getting involved and showing an interest in dd's education is all I can really do.

My current strategy is this:

1. Visit each of the 5 schools we might get sent to, just so as to have an idea of what they're like, travel time to get there etc.

2. Put down the names of the 3 schools in my actual catchment (assuming that they're not actually having Lord-of-the-flies-esque uprisings in the playground on the day we visit). There are 2 other schools nearby which apparently catch the leftover students from our catchment area on a regular basis but I won't choose them first unless they are amazing.

3. Eagerly await decision day.

4. Make a choice (if one is proferred) based on scholastic record, travel considerations and whether it seemed 'nice'. If no choice is offered, possibly appeal (if so desired).

5. Send him to a school and find out if it was a good choice!!

um, you need to make your "choice" at the point where you make your application - you have to rank your schools in order of preference. Then you will get offered your highest available preference (or an entirely different school, if you don't get in on admissions criteria for any of the schools). There is no choosing after decision day!

Not according to the other parents in my area. I've looked on the council website and they use the words: "Applications for all schools were considered equally taking no account of preference."

Other parents then told me (because I asked on a community board) that they weren't offered places in any of the schools they put on the form but got offered a choice between two they didn't know. Others just got told they had a place somewhere random and far away and told to like it or lump it.

Good, eh?

Sorry but other parents have mislead you.

The equal preference statement means: the school can't choose you dependent on where you placed it in your order of preference. So when the school LA order the list of children who have applied they have to do it strictly on the admissions criteria, in fact the school will not know where in your 3/6 choices you placed it.

In previous years it maybe that people got none of their choices, then were offered a choice of 2 schools (unusual but possible). But you cannot rely on that. Either or both of those schools could have become over subscribed (new houses, rising birth rate, or improved reputation).

You need to look at all schools you would consider. Then look at their admissions criteria. Then look at where in the admissions criteria they admitted to last year. Then you need to make a judgement as to whether this year will be similar/harder/easier, so you can estimate how realistic your chances of getting into that school are.
On your form you can have a couple of "aspirational" choices, but it is crucial to have one you pretty certainly qualify for there as well.
If you don't you could get a school no-one wants, and it may not be local but also involve travel.

Also check with your LA if they actually operate a catchment system, often people use the word loosely and there is no advantage in applying for the catchment schools (eg you have no extra greater chance of getting in).

You should only get 1 offer on offer day, that is the law. You may be lucky and be offered a higher choice later from the waiting list - that depends on someone giving up their place.

Your preferences don't affect the allocation. There is a set criteria for admission and your order of preference is not part of this. However your LA will try and allocate you a school based on your preference, if you fulfill criteria for a place. Your council is making the point that ranking a school number one does not give more weight to your application for that school. It is still important to rank the schools and make sure there is a school you are reasonably confident of getting a place for in your list.

The application process was discussed at the schools I looked around, another good reason to go!

I taught in a lot of different schools as a supply teacher and on the basis of that I wouldn't even bother reading the Ofsted report as I think it's totally worthless. The absolute worst school I taught in, where the children were miserable and the teachers were angry and uncooperative was supposedly "outstanding" while the best school I taught in, where the children were genuinely happy and the teachers were exceptionally committed and caring was just on the edge of special measures. The reasons that both schools got those ratings had nothing to do with anything that would affect the children directly, in fact the ratings told you literally nothing about the school.

For me, as a former teacher and parent of a child starting reception next year the most important questions going through my mind on a school visit are:
do the staff chat and smile as they walk around the school or do they look stressed and harassed?
have I spotted a teacher having a nice conversation with a pupil or have I spotted one shouting/being snippy?
in classrooms is the energy stressed or relaxed?
do I hear plenty of positive noise around - pe classes, singing, teacher laughing, children answering questions, constructive chat between children, children walking around doing surveys/competitions/reading etc.
are the displays genuinely celebrating the children, with plenty of messy work and mistakes, or are they carefully manufactured ofsted-ready adult-led constructions with lots of printed pages?
what's the teacher's reaction the HT appearing in their vicinity? Does the teacher look shifty and annoyed or do they smile?
are there any children with serious disabilities in the school who are clearly being well accommodated and accepted into the community?
Does the HT greet children by name? Is he/she friendly or officious? Does he/she seem really connected to the school or does he/she seem a bit vague about things?
what are the signs around the school like? Are they angry-looking "don't do this!" type signs or are they child-friendly signs that encourage good behaviour?
Generally, what is the feel of the school? IME the feel can be picked up literally within minutes.

Your DH is being a bit U.

I've found that gut feeling counts for a lot. One nearby school was crossed off because the head ignored DS and spent most of her time chatting about what they'd decorated lately. Second school, we didn't even see a teacher, 2 years 6's showed us around the school then we were ushered out. Third school, head chatted to DS all the way around, school was bubbly and had the playing field he needed . All rated as 'good' but huge differences once you get inside.

Other parents have jumped ship from the 2 other schools and come to the dc's school confirming that my gut instinct was pretty much right.

When DS1 was in Year 6 I visted a localish school out of our catchement area as I wanted him to go there - good reputation. However, the local open evening put me off the school. The head vanished as soon as she did her speech and the teachers seemed bored and didnt really interact with the parents. We were in the hall and not allowed to look round the school (it was evening, no classes on) and had to make an appointment to view the school.

The school he ended up going to is our local and is about mid table and had a crap reputation. But the thing that swung it for me was the passion from the teachers, they engaged with everyone and had plans in place to get the best from the pupils. We were allowed to walk around - nothing was hidden.

He loved it there and when 2 years later the school was merged with another school and knocked down and a brand spanking new school built in its place the school went from strength to strength. It still has a reputation for being a rough school but it really isnt, its just snobbery because it is on the edge of a council estate and most of the kids who go there are from the estate.

This thread has reminded me of the fact that a friend of a friend wasn't going to send her child to the school my children go to because she had looked around and her "gut feeling" was that it wouldn't be suitable for her child (for many of the similar reasons posted by people in this thread e.g. teachers weren't that friendly, school was large). She changed her mind after speaking to me about the school (my children loved it) and she said a while ago that she is really glad her child did go there. If she hadn't listened to me and had sent her child to another school, no doubt she would be convinced she had made the right decision and that gut feelings were important etc etc just as many posters on here are convinced.

DD1 has been to three schools she's about to turn 6 the feel of the school is 100% the most important thing.

School 1 'special measures' she was in preschool and it was amazing she had fun all the time learned loads of stuff. I got to know all the teachers and volunteered so was in school whilst classes happened and if we moved back DC would go back to that school. There is an 'outstanding' 2 minutes away.

School 2 (moved) 'good' DD was there for 3 terms reception and didn't learn a thing. The school wasn't well managed. DD didn't like the school didn't want to go a few times and she loves learning. After getting in to school 3 the new teacher had no information about her other than three post it notes had no idea what she good do. She was so advanced she moved up to the next class this year with two other children. I'm not self boasting school 1 and me reading with her every night taught her spellings.

School 3 'good' DD had the last term there and this year. Amazing parents welcome anytime. DD has made friends and got moved up to a higher class. The teachers do an amazing job.

If we didn't win the appeal for school 3 we were selling up the house we just bought and moving back to school 1 area we would of lost a lot of money. The paper work on schools mean nothing the feel of a working school will show you (look at the children) school 2 looked great when it was empty

Hope that all makes sense DD2 is tired and baby is climbing me. Should get back to parenting at some point today