'I don't care what the inside of the school looks like.' Is one of us being unreasonable?

[PlumpPartridge]

Ds1 will start primary school next Sept and one of our 3 catchment schools is offering parents the opportunity for a snoop look around in November. I mentioned this to DH and suggested we go. He said that I am welcome to go if I want as he doesn't particularly care what it looks like (it's rated outstanding so no concerns to speak of).

My argument for going: Ds1 will spend a huge amount of time there and I'd like to be able to share in his new world a bit and to be able to visualise what he's talking about and where he spends his days. I feel that this is minimal taking-an-interest in my son's life.

Dh's argument for not going: the interior of the school doesn't matter, but the content of the curriculum does. He's sure he'll see stuff in due course if Ds goes there (dh will do some pick-ups/drop-offs as we both work FT) and doesn't see the point oflooking at Iit before then.

I think he's a bit emotionally insensitive (to me and ds's future needs), he thinks I am worrying over nothing. Is one of us BU? Both? Neither?

He doesn't care what it looks like? Does he think he's being asked for his verdict on the decor? . You could explain, I suppose, but I doubt he'll get it . You're on your own on this one.

Well, we had a conversation over email and he said that he'll be perfectly happy to come and look at a place which he KNOWS Ds1 will be going to. Having said that, he has also offered to come to the open day I've booked in November, so I think he's trying to be nice.

Now, is there any tactful way to determine whether the school has a strong faith component? We are not religious at all

I think it's important to get an impression f the school so that you can judge whether its a good fit for your son. You'll probably get an opportunity o ask questions too (what do thy do to ease children into school, what is the discipline policy, how do they handle problems that could crop up either behavioral or academic etc).

Four years olds are still very immature emotionally and it would be just as important to me that my son was happy and secure at school than excelling academically. Both me and my husband went to look round my my sons preschool and he'll only be there three mornings a week.

I don't think either of you is unreasonable. I would always want to see a school before applying but not everyone feels that way. Your DH is in the latter category. I think that's OK too.

DH was like that but he has as the DC have aged he's started to take much more of an interest.

I didn't get a change to look round pre application - didn't realise it was an option. They did had settling in days term before they started - when us and the DC got to have a look round - just an hour or two.

I went for the rated good school that all the parents tried for - but as we are not in a desperately academic place that did translate as to general welcoming/happiness stuff. It's actually a very caring atmosphere and even DH had been impress with how much the teaching staff care.

If it's a faith school - ask how often they go over to the church - if not I'm not sure how you gauge the religiousness. Friends sent there to a none faith standard primary and found region was very much in their faces. Our DC go to a faith school and I was surprised how frequently they go over to the church but while it's there is somehow less militant and more part of the fabric.

Assuming you trust each other's judgement, I don't see why you both have to go. I didn't look around the primary school my children went to because we didn't live in the area at the time but DH was working near the school so it made sense for him to go on his own to check it was okay. It was the nearest school to our new house, it had very good SATs results and Ofsted report so once DH had looked around and said it was okay, I was happy for dd1 to go there.

I think that some people place more importance on looking around and "judging" how their much child would like the school than others. I personally don't think you can tell all that much about whether your child will "fit" or like the school from a tour around so would prefer to go on school results, Ofsted reports and opinions of parents whose children already go there.

kewcumber if I didn't think your name reflected your area I would think it was the school my DC went to! Is it unifor-free too?

We had a genuine choice of schools: very formal CoE with complicated uniform (blazer, tie etc), large, lively , sporty, huge playground community school or a small one-form entry community school, no uniform, teachers called by first names, lots of crossover between classes so all ages knew each other well. All had v similar ofsfed and results.

I didn't go to look round schools for dd when she started. There is one 5 mins walk away, outstanding report, friend's children go there, they have a swimming pool, sounded like a nice school, what's to worry about!?

Your dh is being very naive to rely purely on an OFSTED report, even if its one that been done in the last couple of years.

If he feels out of his depth and wants to leave it to you, thats different, but I feel its incredibly important to go and get a feel for the ethos of the school whicn is going to be such a massive part of your dc's life for so long.

To be fair, Backforgood, I had assumed that the outstanding report was sufficient as well - it's only after reading this thread that I've realised that the feel of the place may also be a factor. Dh seems more on board now anyway, although he says he resents having to investigate schools that Ds won't get into as he could spend the time doing more interesting things. Of course, we don't know which school he'll get yet!

Unlikely we'll get into the outstanding one anyway - I have done some research and found that their cut-off distance for offers this year was 0.193 miles. We're 0.4 :(

You both must visit. I chose a school based on an outstanding ofsted report it was the worst decision I ever made and totally wrong for ds.

'he resents having to investigate schools that Ds won't get into as he could spend the time doing more interesting things. Of course, we don't know which school he'll get yet'

Odd. No school, or any other institution, is perfect. If you don't get an absolute choice yourself, as in this situation, it surely is even MORE important to have some idea what the school you get landed with is actually like, in that you work out what you will need to do to fill the gaps. So the highly academic school with a playground consisting of a patch of sad tarmac and a ten -year-old bird box - your child should go down on the waiting list for Woodcraft Folk, you plan camping holidays and decide on a bike for Christmas. Or the school that puts its Forest School provision front and centre and sends all the children home apple-cheeked and exhausted from running about, but the art teacher is someone who never thought they would end up teaching and doesn't really like children - you think about volunteering to start an art club, join that scheme that sends out stuff to make every month or think about turning your shed into a kiln.

Do not be afraid to ask bluntly about religion. It is the kind of thing most schools should be quite open about, my DCs primary was CofE but could have spoken for hours about teaching about other faiths, and how CofE was reflected more in values (most Assemblies apart from songs could be seen as faith based or non-faith depending on how you looked at them, prayers were meditative with no forced amen).
The bluntest question I heard at a school visit was someone asking the Head when he was going to retire, he was a little evasive but retired about 8-9 years later, so wasn't that old really.

I think you're being unreasonable in insisting the your DH shares your desire to be able to visualise the exact layout of the classroom when he talks about his day. You don't need to be able to recall the colour of the table to be supportive and take an interest.

And, the layout will change over time. They won't invited you back in every time they move a table so you can 'visualise' the room.

It is useful to visit to get a feel for a school, but only if it genuinely is a choice. There's little point in visiting what you couldn't have, even if you loved it. That way disappointment lies.

DH visited most schools with me for DS2. He couldn't come to one, so I went on my own. It was dire and I vetoed it. DH trusted my judgement on that.

DS1's old high school gave very little notice of open evenings and invariably held them on a Tuesday while I was working (and could not take time off and DH couldn't go because DS2 was in bed). So I couldn't go to any of them. They do exactly the same with GCSE options evenings etc. phoning to try to make an appointment or even just speak to an actual teacher was pointless. They seemed to be determined to make sure you spoke to no one who might actually teach your child at any time. Sometimes it's not about whether you take an interest or not; sometimes schools aren't very accessible.

It wouldn't have made any difference though as the school was exactly how I knew it would be (cold, huge, systems and targets driven, performance management for all nightmare with outstanding ofsted) but it was the only choice at that time. And all his friend were going (we have a feeder school system here).

He now goes to a new free school that's just opened up, which I could and did visit. It has a much nicer ethos. We could tell that from speaking to the staff even before the building was finished and you could look around.

I chose a junior school in special measures for ds2, for a number of reasons.

It was rated good by the time he left, he loved it there and did really well. Level 6 in his sats, lots of trips away which did loads for his confidance and his french! Lots of out door space and activities and they did the most fantastic outdoor concerts in summer.

The outstanding school just felt like it had no soul

Your DH is definitely BU (and rather daft). If you are comparing state schools then there's no point in looking at the curriculum as it will be the same at all schools! As many others have said, of course you don't visit to phsyically look at the building! You go to get a feel of the place and to talk to the staff and ask questions. When we were looking round schools we had one meeting with an HT who spoke only to me and DH, completely ignoring my DD. At another, the HT kept a bunch of parents waiting for ages because she had to help one of the Reception children. Some parents were 'this is outrageous, how dare the HT keep us waiting when we have an appointment time?!" but we saw it as proof that this school would put the needs of a child first. Guess which one we picked? :)

Also, our local outstanding school is nothing but a SATs factory. My DD's school doesn't get very good results but they are great at pastoral care and they turn out lovely, caring children.

The trouble with visiting schools and going with "feelings" is that they may well be wrong. First impressions often are. Plus your children may not actually have the same likes and dislikes as you do.

I think you're being unreasonable in insisting the your DH shares your desire to be able to visualise the exact layout of the classroom when he talks about his day. You don't need to be able to recall the colour of the table to be supportive and take an interest.

I didn't actually feel that he was taking any interest at all, at the time. He has now clarified that he is interested but not in the same way as me. I understand his position now and am ok with it.

And, the layout will change over time. They won't invited you back in every time they move a table so you can 'visualise' the room.

^^Unnecessarily condescending, IMO.

The trouble with visiting schools and going with "feelings" is that they may well be wrong.

Of course they might - but I listed up thread the things I learnt about my sons school which weren't on the website and wouldn't have occurred to me to ask about (as a first time school parent). The information I got (by using my own eyes) was additional to the facts published - if you don;t visit you might be missing out on information which turns out to be important to you.

Unnecessarily condescending, IMO. - have to say I agree. Quite a efw of us nosily peaked around the classroom door in the first week of year 4 because the layout is quite different (rows rather than table groups) - its hardly unreasonable to want to know what your childs classroom is like, without needing to know every tiny change that happens afterwards. And anyway if thats important to you, just volunteer to do some parent reading at school. I found it really helped getting DS talk properly about what happened during his day as I was able to talk about things that he understood rather than "how was your day?" Good "What did you do?" Nothing "Who did you play with?" No-one.

Of course they might - but I listed up thread the things I learnt about my sons school which weren't on the website and wouldn't have occurred to me to ask about (as a first time school parent). The information I got (by using my own eyes) was additional to the facts published - if you don;t visit you might be missing out on information which turns out to be important to you.

The things you listed were important to you but they may not have been important to your son, particularly once he wasn't in reception. So really your visit may have been counterproductive. I'm not saying that parents shouldn't visit school if they want to but I'm sceptical that you can really choose the best school for your child on the basis of a visit and can understand why people such as OP's DH would prefer to use other criteria.

I think an awareness of the school's academic record AND an idea of what it's like as a day-to-day environment can both be helpful. Obviously I have no idea whether DS will appreciate the same things in his environment that I do, but I've lived with him for 3 years and like to think that I have at least a rough idea of his likes and dislikes. I want to at least try to accomodate his wishes, even if I am imagining them

kewcumber - I hadn't thought of parent reading, thank you. That is a useful tip!

I understand but my point was that you don't know if you will find out additional information which is relevant unless you visit (and of course you won;t know if its relevant to your child if they haven't started yet you are making the decision based on what you know of them now).

Its like saying "I don't need to see the house - the surveyors report is enough, lets buy it" mostly people would prefer to assess things themselves not just make a decision based on paper.

People who buy properties from surveyors reports tend to be buying as an investment decision with no emotion involved because they won;t be living in the house.

Of course its possible. But surely its unusual.

And OP has not at any stage suggested they will chose the school simply based on the visit. In my opinion, more information is always better than less and she has said she is torn about which school to put as first choice - a visit might help decide.

My point is that the "additional information" may not really be relevant and may actually be a red herring causing the parent to choose the wrong school for their child. I think that is particularly the case when parents choose a school based on their "gut feeling" rather than objective criteria. It's not the same as choosing a house as one of the main criteria for most people when buying a house is appearance so obviously you need to look at it. That isn't (or shouldn't be in my opinion) be the main reason for choosing a school for your child.

The OP hasn't said that choose will choose a school based solely on a visit but some of the posters on this thread certainly seem to have done that.

I find that an interesting point, whatever. Basically I think you're saying that there's a risk of the additional information causing me to make a bad choice which is not based on tangible fact. You're right, but there is also the possibility that the additional information may help me to make a better choice (still not based on tangible fact though).

I suppose it depends on how much weight you attach to tangibles and intangibles in your day-to-day life. If someone/something is making me uncomfortable then I tend to leave or avoid them, so the intangibles probably matter more to me than you.

Both positions are fine, btw. Just different.