'I don't care what the inside of the school looks like.' Is one of us being unreasonable?

[PlumpPartridge]

Ds1 will start primary school next Sept and one of our 3 catchment schools is offering parents the opportunity for a snoop look around in November. I mentioned this to DH and suggested we go. He said that I am welcome to go if I want as he doesn't particularly care what it looks like (it's rated outstanding so no concerns to speak of).

My argument for going: Ds1 will spend a huge amount of time there and I'd like to be able to share in his new world a bit and to be able to visualise what he's talking about and where he spends his days. I feel that this is minimal taking-an-interest in my son's life.

Dh's argument for not going: the interior of the school doesn't matter, but the content of the curriculum does. He's sure he'll see stuff in due course if Ds goes there (dh will do some pick-ups/drop-offs as we both work FT) and doesn't see the point oflooking at Iit before then.

I think he's a bit emotionally insensitive (to me and ds's future needs), he thinks I am worrying over nothing. Is one of us BU? Both? Neither?

YABU

He's not trying to stop you going he just doesn't feel the need to go himself, that's fair enough and I don't think that's 'emotionally insensitive' at all

*YABU

He's not trying to stop you going he just doesn't feel the need to go himself, that's fair enough and I don't think that's 'emotionally insensitive' at all*

Well these are his children too - surely he'd want all of the information before making a joint choice?

I certainly made a joint choice with DH and would be if he hadnt come along too. Fwiw he went on all of the tours - I couldn't go on one so went along separately. We both work so made the time.

There are 2 outstanding schools nearby and nearly all my friends chose 1 and encouraged me too. I visited and theirs has no grass/greenspace at all. They do pe indoors or on a small concrete yard.

The other one had swathes of green, a timber trail and a forest school where they toast marshmallows and grow their own plants. It is so important to me to have DDs in a school that isn't totally removed from nature.

Those are the type of things that ofsted can't show you but make the difference for
your child. He is being lazy.

Are you happy to make the decision alone? Is your DH happy for you to make the decision? If not, you both need to visit all 3 schools...

Go and have a look certainly, and keep an open mind, but if your husband doesn't want to go, that is up to him. Would he have to take time off work to do so?
Frankly, teachers loathe these open days; we felt like performing animals and as is clear from some of the comments, very biased and uninformed judgements are made in a very short time and on very limited evidence.

Well you aren't actually looking at the bricks and mortar are you?
You are getting a feel for the school to see if you think it will suit your child.
Also, I would echo the point someone made earlier, you can't actually choose your child's school, you can on,y express a preference

iggly your DH might have wanted to go along, mine did too but the op's DH is happy not to. If he wants to trust her judgement then there's no issue

My DH looked round and chose our youngest nursery, I was more than happy to let him do it and agree with his choices

yes agree its important to get a feel for the school. Dh struggled to get to our school visits due to work, but 2 of them we had visited already as older ds's previously went to/were there already. So I did these ones on my own.

The third which was a newish free school, we knew nothing about it, so Dh made time to come with me to visit. I'm glad he did as halfway through the presentation I knew DD wouldn't be happy at this school. Dh agreed we were both sitting there thinking WTF!!
We left straight after the presentation and didn't bother with the rest of the tour/meeting the teachers.
It was good to have his thoughts on it as if I were on my own I would be worrying that I had had made a rash decision by discounting it so early.

Ideally you both need to attend to make sure that it is in fact the right school for your DS.
If he is refusing to go then you will have to go it alone, but tell him he then cant then complain if your decision is not to his liking.

I did choose their nursery. I was a SAHM at the time and expecting DS2, so DS1 started going there once a week at 11mo as I wanted some time with just the new baby. DH only actually visited the place 5 or 6 times max (for pick-up/drop-off) before they started attending full-time. He said he trusted my judgement.

I was a little at the time but decided that it didn't matter much as they seemed happy and the environment seemed pleasant.

We've both agreed that school feels like a much bigger deal than nursery did though, so I am surprised that he isn't more interested. To be fair, I had no idea that schools could vary so much even if they had the same label, so this thread has been very helpful. Maybe I will show it to DH, as he is generally willing to change his mind when presented with evidence that he might not have all the facts.

To whoever asked: I think we have a fairly good chance of getting into any of the 3 schools in our catchment, although I prefer the outstanding one and special measures one as options (sounds counter-intuitive I know)!

It isn't necessarily about trusting judgement IMO - it is about showing an interest. What if he did see it and didn't like it?

DH didn't go and see either of our DC's schools either.

This was because

• they were the only schools we were going to get into, so it was a case of they went there unless absolutely awful

• he knew I had more of an opinion and would talk him down anyway if there was a conflict

Here in Scotland we send our kids to the local school. For some people there are other choices such as private if they can afford it, or faith if that applies.

But on the whole, you send them up the road. I don't get the whole shopping for schools thing at all.

Our local primary does open days for preschoolers and their parents but it's just to welcome them and prepare them. It's not a sales pitch.

He's being daft.

For one, Ofsted ratings are not set in stone - it might be O/s now but what if since the inspection it's had a change of management, a large turnover of staff, etc?

The environment your child is in is the most important thing. I'm frankly amazed that he doesn't recognise that.

Also, I'm assuming he doesn't work in education? Anyone who does knows what a small (but unfortunately important) snapshot an Ofsted judgement is.

We're looking at secondaries - one that we didn't have on our radar at all, but thought we may as well have a look at has now jumped into first place. All to do with what we saw at the open night.

What will happen if you come back from viewing the school on your own and you have a really negative niew. Will he still want DC to go there as it is "outstanding"? This actually happened to us - DH had to work so DS and I went so see a school that DS was really keen on. Really unimpressed by the ethos of the school - hothousing and ridicule seemed to be the secret of its success. DS and I came home, told DH what we thought and it was scratched off our list despite being a front runner.

It isn't necessarily about trusting judgement IMO - it is about showing an interest.

Exactly! He'd say that he can show an interest when DS actually goes there....

What if he did see it and didn't like it?

I guess I'd respect his opinion on that, as he would mine.

I do wonder if part of this is him responding to the over-thinking culture of parenting that exists nowadays. Not everyone subscribes to it, but some of our friends do. I worry that in an attempt to not be one of the parents who raises hell over the occasional turkey twizzler, he may be inadvertently paying less attention to the stuff that actually matters. I tend to play it safe and investigate everything before deciding whether I need to worry about it or not generally not

And we're not 'shopping' for a school; in our area you put down the names of schools in your catchment and wait to see which one they offer you. I don't even think the choices are ranked according to order of preference, but you do have to put them down or risk having no place at all (as an acquaintance found out to her cost last September).

Also, I'm assuming he doesn't work in education?

Hah - he does, but it's higher education (PhD level). He would admit he wasn't the most devoted mentor to his one student, in fairness!

Hi Plump, we live in an inner city and so there are lots of schools very nearby. I visited 8 in total when I was selecting for DD1 and the thing that stuck me was how different they all were, even though they all had the same 'good' Ofsted grading. It was very interesting indeed to have a snoop around and compare. I think your DH is being flippant and unhelpful tbh, the ethos of the school, the behaviour of the kids, the way the classrooms are run are all things you can find out about on a visit - I found it extremely helpful in making the decision about which school was right for my child.

If you can 'shop' for a school that is the best fit for your child why wouldn't you? We have five primaries with a fair amount of movement between catchments. My DS does not go to our outstanding catchment primary as I visited it and it left me cold. No one from the management team assisted with the visit, we got no idea of the school ethos. I watched a child we knew from pre-school sit and stare into space, completely unengaged with the class and teachers for ten minutes. No one noticed her at all. In contrast the school we did choose really cared for and involved all children. The head showed us round and knew the names of all the children she met on the way. The head pushed their ethos of inclusion, how they work on social skills as well, and this ended up being more important to us, for our son, than better results and a better ofsted. Ofsteds change as well, the outstanding school is now good.

I'd much rather be accused of over-thinking parenting than under-thinking parenting tbh.

I agree Chutes :) to be fair, it's the first time either of us have had to deal with schools as adults and we are both learning as we go. I think he'd be surprised to learn that so many teachers feel there is a lot of variation.

Anyway, he did tell me this morning when we were arguing discussing this point that I should just ask Mumsnet, so I have. I will probably send him the thread for a bit of light lunchtime reading!

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the "emotionally insensitive" comments were aimed at the fact that her DH seems to be missing the point of going to see the school completley. He seems to think that it's so they can see what the school looks like inside rather than what "feel" he gets from the school.

If I were you I would go alone. How he feels is not how you feel and there was nothing in your marriage vows about merging personality I assume!

If I hadn't been to an open day at DS's school (outstanding local state school) I would not have known that they have no doors on any of the classrooms, that all the teachers (even the head) are called by their first names, that playground is heavily supervised (compared to most primaries) that reception class have a separate playground to the rest of the school.

It madea huge difference to know all this and to see it in operation. I would imagine that there were many who were very put off by this approach despite being an outstanding school and many (like me) who loved it.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the "emotionally insensitive" comments were aimed at the fact that her DH seems to be missing the point of going to see the school completley.

It's partly that, but I also felt a bit upset that he didn't want to be able to know exactly what DS1 will be talking about if/when he goes there. DS1 will come home and say 'There was a table and a cat Mummy!' and I'll be able to visualise exactly what he's talking about and sort of be there with him, which I know just sounds a bit and PFB but it's how I feel DH, on the other hand, will say 'Really? A table AND a cat? That sounds great!' and not worry about the internal picture so much. I feel like he should want to know more about it all, but I'm aware that I may BU there.

He seems to think that it's so they can see what the school looks like inside rather than what "feel" he gets from the school.

I think he does think that, which is why this thread is helpful. TBH, I hadn't really thought about the feel of the place myself until now.

I don't think he's so much being unreasonable, so much as it being a rather "male factual" approach.
He sees it as a place your dc go to get educated. Therefore it matters what they teach him and nothing more.
You see it as a more full place where he will learn social skills and needs to be happy.

I would tell him that you learn much more about a school by looking than the stuff they write in the prospectus.
The prospectus doesn't tell you useful things like "all the locks on the loo doors are broken" or "the school lunches are made up from Gloop and company, who live up to their name" or "The ecology wood, which sounds so impressive on paper, is actually a haunt for the local youth and is constantly filled with broken glass bottles so it can't be used..."

Okay - I think I went to see all the primary schools for my DC on my own, not because DH wasn't interested but because he delegated to me. If I had been torn over one or had niggly doubts, he probably would have visited. He was certainly interested, and visited our leading choices for secondary.

BUT I think you really need to phone and ask to see all the schools on a normal working day, not just for an open day/special meeting.
Once you've seen a few schools you realise how different they can be, how different what they offer can be, the whole atmosphere can be different.

Also what suits you might not be the same as Ofsted or your friend. I have one local school which did as well as my chosen school at Ofsted, and friends choose, but which I didn't like. There is another local school which has really good results, but there are also rumours of "cheating" at SATs. Another one in a nearby town, is very highly sort after, but does things in a way I wouldn't like and the only child I've personally known there left after 1 term (a mis match between the child and the school).

Personally I wouldn't want the Scottish system, because I like more input into my children's education.

Personally, I think it's a bit like voting in a General election. If you don't do it, you withdraw your right to an opinion for the next 5 years.

If your DH [who works in education] is happy to have no input on the choice as to where his children will spend the next 6/7 yrs of their lives, then so be it; but woe betide him if he wants a moan about how the school is managed etc etc

Amusing really, but lazy mostly - I'll bet he'd never move universities for a new job without visiting the alternatives for look and feel first. Even a more academically superior one.