To tell you all what Alan Titchmarch thinks of 12-15 year old girls who dress 'inappropriately'

[RiffyWammal]

I'm so angry. On his show today in a discussion about sexual harassment and sexism he said something really vile. I will transcribe what he said exactly;

"A lot of 12, 13, 14, 15 year old girls are now walking down the street barely covered. I see crop tops on girls of 12 and skirts up here, in a way now I hate to say that thing which men say 'they are asking for it' but it strikes me that if a girl of 14 walks past a building site in a crop top and short skirt she's probably going to get whistled at and worse."

I'm disgusted as was Laura Bates from Everyday Sexism who stayed remarkably controlled as she countered this. The victim blaming, the implication that girls should jolly well cover up if they don't want to be harrassed, the attitude of 'how else do we expect men to react if they see a girl's legs and belly'? I could hardly believe my ears. The audience applauded him FFS

I think I am going to make a complaint to ITV. I just wanted to bring it to the attention of anyone else who might wish to do the same.

Jeez Mr Sheen what were you thinking with that jumper? It's got two sleeves, makes me think of two breasts?

Hulababy

Do me and yourself a favour, take a chill-pill really.

Sometimes I really do wonder about this parallel universe!

It's also got a v at the front and the back - you really are flaunting your neck skin there Mr Sheen

Thats the trouble with these types of threads, it gets soo heated, everything posted that doesnt exactly match what people think, they jump down someone's throat for expressing an opinion.

Im happy to let my comments stand. They are not meant to be inflammatory, they dont victim blame they just express a view about the state of some people's style of dress.

And yes, a whistle from time to time is not all bad. For ME. I'm fine with it, it isnt the most controversial thing in the world, unless you want to make it so, and I dont intend to be bullied or railroaded into retracting a comment.

Maybe we all have to walk around scowling, defensive and humourless. Dear me!

I grew up with the "you can't wear that, you'll attract the wrong attention" message and infact my mother once wrote something fairly vile in which she said that the build up to my being raped was my moral decline as I'd begun dressing more and more provocatively, the end result therefore being inevitable.

That aside, the more I've read of the FWR board on here the more my views have changed and having both a daughter and a son I know that I won't be ramming "modesty" down my daughters throat, but instead teaching my son to respect women. Today I went on the school run wearing biker boots, fishnets, a tight brown skirt and fitted t shirt. When I chose to wear this outfit I chose it because I like the clothes, I've recently lost some weight and I'm proud of how I look. I did NOT wear the outfit as an invitation to be harassed. I got harassed today, but no more than the day last week when I did the school run in jeans and a baggy jumper and no makeup. No woman should have to hide her body, regardless of age, just because some men think all woman are fair game. No woman of any age should be ashamed of their body, or intimidated by wearing clothes which show it off because of the attitude of some men.

It's also got a v at the front and the back - you really are flaunting your neck skin there Mr Sheen

I've got short hair too. You can see all the begging for it bones in my cervical spine.

daisychain - don't need to thanks; pretty chilled sat here catching up online with a glass of wine in my hand and dinner simmering away, but thanks anyway.

But, as mum to a nearly teen DD, I do worry about what some people feel is acceptable with regards to some men's behaviour.

I honestly don't understand why this gets heated.

Why isn't some ire reserved here for the fashion industry and for the mysognistic society that determines women must be dresses sexually availably at all times?

On other threads a woman had to wear heels to go in a rugby club. Women air hostesses have to wear make up, skirts and heels.

Women constantly told what to wear and when to wear it and we buy into it by demanding that we wear even more revealing clothes to fit in with this.

Ridiculous heels previously only worn by sex workers. Crotchless thongs on the high street. The demand is there and younger and younger teenagers are wearing it.

I don't think the answer is to wear burkas or to do the slut walk stuff. - there's something in the middle and it's education about what those heels mean and where they come from (pornography and exploitation)

I run in the park - I am a chunky 44 year old - i am normally sweaty and red faced - I get comments every time - from teenaged boys and grown men

I do not run in a crop top

No one should have to put up with harassment simply because they have a vagina

Wolf Whistling etc is just telling women - hey you are still just tits and ass you know

Got taken the piss out of by some builders one day last week for being pregnant. Felt good.

Oh I remember having MIL staying with me and having to watch that shitty show daily. It surpassed itself when Gloria Hunniford was wheeled out for her equally odd opinions while the audience whooped it up.

The man is a dickhead. He hasn't ever said anything of sense or worth. God knows how he's snagged a prime time show - he has absolutely nothing to recommend him whether it be charisma, wit or intelligence. Awful man.

daisychain when men whistle at you are you dressed "inappropriately" or are you just a normal woman going about her business?

I really think it is time for quite a lot of our society to wake up and educate reprogram their thought processes, how can a grown man think that it is ok to treat female like hunks of meat? How bloody disrespectful and victim blaming.

A female (of any age) should be able to walk down a street with nought on but fake fox tails swinging from her nipples if she wanted, without some smutty little gimp wolf whistling and spouting harassing sexual obscenities.

AT has just showed how uneducated he is, there is no need for ignorance.

He's an arse.
Between the ages of 12-17 (when I passed my driving test and my lovely Dad got me a beaten up little car to drive) I had to walk through a large industrial estate to get to school. My uniform had to be strictly adhered to and consisted of a navy A line knee length skirt, white knee length socks, shoes with a heel height no greater than 1 inch, long sleeved cotton school shirt, button up to just below the throat and blazer. Utterly vile below knee mackintosh allowed in wet weather. Not a smidgeon of make up allowed and hair beyond shoulder length had to be tied up always.
It was awful getting through that estate, especially at home time when there seemed to be more break times for employees. Wolf whistling, jeering, deeply embarrassing things shouted at me etc. My parents tried to intervene by contacting the companies involved and the police, but the only time it really stopped was when I was able to drive past these places.
This was in the 1980's, so a v long time ago.
I was not dressed inappropriately, in fact the complete reverse.
Alan Titchmarsh needs to keep his mouth shut about things he knows nothing about and the producers on any show where he speaks in this way need to tell him to shut up. Fast.

The problem with feeling pleased when you get whistled at is that it's not a comment on you, or your attractiveness. It doesn't mean "wow, you got it just right when you got dressed this morning". It's not a compliment at all. It's a macho bonding ritual in which you are the incidental tits-n-twat that just happens to be walking by. If you don't believe me, let the blokes know next time that you find their attention unwanted or distasteful. I can guarantee that in an instant you will go from "hot whistleworthy babe" to "fat dyke" or "ugly frigid bitch".

If the poor menz can't control themselves at the sight of a bit of extra female skin in public, then perhaps they should lock themselves indoors so they aren't inadvertently overcome. It's their shortcoming, not the women's.

DaisyChain01 Maybe we all have to walk around scowling, defensive and humourless. Dear me!

Just as I predicted. If you object to sexually aggressive behaviour from men while going about your daily business you're 'scowling, defensive and humourless'.

Or maybe I don't like being inappropriately touched by strange blokes, asked how old I am (I was 13/14) and whether I have a boyfriend (by men a good ten years older when I was in my early teens).

Maybe I don't like having sexually charged language thrown at me by drunk men on stag weekends when I'm walking through town with my children in the middle of the day.

Maybe I don't like the fact that if I chose to ignore the catcalls I usually receive even more aggressive language - insulting and demeaning.

And I certainly don't want my DD, who is only 12, to think she is somehow wrong for not enjoying this kind of attention from pricks who can't keep their mouths shut!

Can you understand from that, Daisy, why I object to what you're trying to brush off as a bit of a laugh? For most women it's not funny - and for the men doing it, it's not meant as a compliment.

Oooh cross-post with SignYourName, who put it much better than me.

Flossy, I personally don't like young girls wearing revealing clothes and then, to the OP: What is your objection to them dressing provocatively?

Same as yours presumably

Are we not to discuss with our twelve-year-olds, then, what message some clothes send out? Someone upthread has already pointed out that 'hooker shoes' are now worn by our own daughters. If we can see that they are hooker shoes, so can others. So..what do we say to our daughters when they want to wear shit like that?

Hooker shoes?

see I absolutely wont be using the term 'hooker shoes' in any conversation with my girls :)

I hope this is worded inoffensively and am genuinely not trying to be antagonistic, but wondering what the consensus is.
When I started going out to nightclubs my mum taught me always to stick with my group of friends and not to get so drunk that I didn't know what I was doing.
I think this is sensible behaviour.
I am in no way saying that a woman who gets drunk and/or wanders off on her own deserves to be raped (any assault or incident of physical/sexual violence is abhorrent and everyone should be able to do as they please, within reason) but if you can take precautions to avoid a possible outcome isn't it sensible to do that thing? Obviously it is disgusting that some men behave in such a manner that women feel they have to stick together, but if I can do something to avoid a risk then I feel that's my responsibility.
I see clothing in the same way. I should be free to wear any clothes I like, but I accept that a boob tube and short skirt is more likely to be noticed or commented on than jeans and a top.
I don't see it as victim blaming, I see it as taking measures to minimise the risks of a potential outcome.
Is that outlook old fashioned and unreasonable?

Yes, hooker shoes. Quit being disingenuous.