To tell you all what Alan Titchmarch thinks of 12-15 year old girls who dress 'inappropriately'

[RiffyWammal]

I'm so angry. On his show today in a discussion about sexual harassment and sexism he said something really vile. I will transcribe what he said exactly;

"A lot of 12, 13, 14, 15 year old girls are now walking down the street barely covered. I see crop tops on girls of 12 and skirts up here, in a way now I hate to say that thing which men say 'they are asking for it' but it strikes me that if a girl of 14 walks past a building site in a crop top and short skirt she's probably going to get whistled at and worse."

I'm disgusted as was Laura Bates from Everyday Sexism who stayed remarkably controlled as she countered this. The victim blaming, the implication that girls should jolly well cover up if they don't want to be harrassed, the attitude of 'how else do we expect men to react if they see a girl's legs and belly'? I could hardly believe my ears. The audience applauded him FFS

I think I am going to make a complaint to ITV. I just wanted to bring it to the attention of anyone else who might wish to do the same.

Young Girls shouldn't wear sexually revealing clothes?

Please define Young Girl!

At 8 if DD1 had worn a cropped top and hot pants she was clearly a child no builder would whistle unless he wanted to go on the sex offenders register. At 13 in the same outfit, made up with her hair in a messy bun? A good stare would tell you she was under age, a quick glance and, unless you have teens, it's jolly hard to tell.

In any case this is nothing new. Girls have always dressed to look grown up. I know we did. Our local pubs and discos totally ignored the licensing laws, but it was only 'good manners' to look at least 16.

We, mostly, didn't worry about boys thinking we were 16. This is pre AIDs, there were no condom machines and anyway everyone knew everyone else. Hitting on someone's 14y little sister or cousin wasn't wise.

Which is a very waffly way of saying piss off AT, it's quite impossible to define an age where a girl/woman should change her dress code. Men should just keep their offensive comments to themselves.

Hmm that's why I had white van men and shop keepers coming on to me while I was wearing a school uniform!

I don't like seeing young girls dressed in hardly anything but they never deserve to be harassed!

I mean the top I have on today is a little low cut. Best put a polo neck jumper on before I go to the shop in case the workmen out there can't control themselves.

If it was live what is the use of complaining?

I have a 12y. She does wear short skirts and shorts at times - its what is fashionable at the moment. She has some summer tops which are more revealing that others she owns - and yes, one or two may be slightly cropped - they show the lower part of her tummy at times - they are not boob tube types.

None are "sexy" adult wear - they are fashionable summer clothes. I have no issue with this. She is not inappropriately dressed. She is dressed as a young teen.

She has curves as do many of her friends - they shouldn't have to suddenly start hiding away in jeans and jumpers. Obviously these curves are more obvious in summer clothes.

She wore little shorts as a younger girl, so why can't she suddenly wear them now she is a teen with a figure?

Let's face it - a girl or woman should be able to walk down the road wearing anything they want to without getting called or whistled at.

The problem is with any boy or man who thinks it is appropriate to whistle or comment when they see a girl dressed showing a bit of flesh. Its unnecessary behaviour and it is inappropriate behaviour on the part of the male.

We need not focus on educating those males, not telling the females be covered because males can't be trusted.

I think he worded it very badly (perhaps I'm being too generous).

Some young girls do dress inappropriately, I can remember my niece at the age of 13 wearing very short skirts and a thong - I know she wore one because you could see it clearly as her skirt was far too short. No amount of lectures from her parents made any difference as her friends dressed in the same manner.

Saying that is not the same as blaming the victim if they are assaulted, there are some men who will lust after women (and girls) no matter how they are dressed. There are also some who think because a woman displays some flesh she is "fair game". Unfortunately we need to teach girls to be careful as to the situations they might get themselves into, avoiding unlit areas at night etc. As to the loud leering in public, shocking behaviour.

Am I alone in thinking young girls should wear whatever they please and should be able to walk down the street without harassment.

Really? Only me?

Men shouldn't rape women but they do. There's no harm in saying that you 'can' help protect yourself by not wearing provocative clothes.

Men rape because they are rapists, not because of what their victims are wearing.

www.buzzfeed.com/jtes/sexual-assault-survivors-answer-the-question-what-were-you-w#4be0nnw

P.s women should also be able to wear what the hell they want without being harassed too!

Oh clearly not- a few more posters since I first read

And of course none of this explains why males who rape do so regardless of what a female is wearing - hence why girls and women of any age and wearing any amount of clothes have been raped over the years.

We need to do more to address the attitudes and behaviour of some males.

This sort of nonsense has a similar basis:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/a1844579-To-think-that-this-6th-Form-Dress-Code-is-wrong

Distressingly, similar policies seem to be spreading.

My 15yo DD is on work experience, and after being whistled at and worse on her walk to get lunch on the first day, she has been able to see what happens when she wears different outfits. It has been much the same each day, but slightly less when she had black jeans and trainers and a sweatshirt on.

One creep even hassled her on the bus. Thankfully he sank back in his seat when she said she was 15 - she thought he looked about 30.

I still get this and I have just turned 50. I am not particularly gorgeous and I don't wear mini-skirts, high heels or low-cut tops.

It's the men, not the girls.

So presumably AT thinks that if a 12 year old boy wears shorts and walks past a group of women he deserves to be leered at too

'The problem is not with the clothes, it's with societies belief that someone exposing their body is able to completely hinder someone else's capability to control themselves. '

This.

The only times I've had actual bottom pinches have been when I was wearing saggy old jeans and a shapeless waterproof. Why? Because the fact that I was wearing clothes, was fat and 45 did not alter the fact that under my jeans I clearly had a cunt and legs and was therefore ripe for grabbing.
There probably is an unspoken attitude among many men that females who wear short skirts are whores and that whores deserve abuse, but as a woman I am NOT GOING TO PANDER TO THAT.

It appears after "..... going to get whistled at and worse" he forgot to say "Of course this is utterly repugnant behaviour on the part of men who leer, cat call, whistle and in any way harass anyone, male or female, of any age. How, audience, can we educate our children not to be as fucking stupid as witless ignorant arseholes like me?"

Twat.

He should stick to gardening. In the Triffid shed.

Shall we all walk about covered from head to toe because the poor men can't control themselves?

There's a middle line, where people can dress appropriately in public. This isn't about victim blaming, it's about having a clue about looking good - in UK, generally speaking people don't have a clue.

Whenever I go to the Continent (France, Spain, Italy), people dress beautifully, smartly, and that doesn't mean covering themselves from head to toe, they've just got what it takes. I feel embarrassed at the way people go into shops in this country - men dressed with either no shirts on or muscle shirts, even no shoes on, vile slogans on t-shirts, women who are naturally beautiful but let themselves down by not having any sense of boundaries between looking attractive and looking tarty (I saw someone today who may as well not have been wearing anything - yup "its their human right" right?)

As for victim blaming, that's a whole different matter I don't want to get into, because it's a hiding-to nothing-linking "the way people dress" to what happens to them. But let's say, it doesn't help if everything is on show.

I love getting whistled at - makes my day :-)

Obviously what you're wearing has nothing to do with being raped. Rapists are rapists ie. criminals.

That is a separate issue entirely from dressing inappropriately and dressing to look older or titillate.

Shorts and a crop top on a 12 year old is vastly different to hot pants and a 'come with me' vest .

Confusing the two issues like Titsarse has done isn't helpful.

I'm a feminist and I still think that dressing in adult clothes designed by some fool to draw sexual attention is inappropriate for children.

It should be ok to say that and also say that of course rapists will rape anyone and for these two issues to be separate

So if my 15 year old DD got raped because she wasn't dressed appropriately then it would be partly her fault?

Is that what you are saying Daisychain?

I got whistled at today whilst I was wearing my nursing uniform - crimplene trousers and a tunic. Absolutely nothing sexy there. And I am 47. And a size 16.

Daisychain - I'm delighted you love getting whistled at, but please spare a thought for the young girls who are being sexually harrassed by grown men on the street (I was one of them at 13/14) and who are scared and intimidated by such behaviour.

Not everyone loves it or feels validated by it - the vast majority of women don't like it. It's sexually aggressive and designed to intimidate. For every one woman who says she likes it, there are many others who don't and people like you are giving men the impression that the rest of us are simply miserable women who need to lighten up.

Again, please look at Everyday Sexism and you'll see why this is such a big problem in the UK.

The fact is that women who cover up get harassed just as much as women who wear little clothes.

I have been harassed/had lewd comments or wolf whistles wearing a summer dress, wearing jeans and a jacket, and even wearing a tracksuit.

It never mattered what I was wearing, the only thing that mattered was that I was female.

Therefore telling girls to cover up is pointless and victim blaming. Some men just enjoy harassing women. It is their attitudes and behaviour that needs changing.

Op I read AT comments to mean, no its not right but if girls do dress like that they are more likely to get whistled at or worse. I think he is stating a fact, he isn't saying what he'd do. Only my opinion, I didn't see it, so could be wrong on how it came over.

Rather than providing justifications for unwanted attention, assault or rape, we should really be asking why this is acceptable at all in a civilised society?

My DP, brother, millions of men can manage to not do any of the above so the responsibility lies with the men, absolutely nothing to do with a females' choice of clothing. I was dressed in office clothes- it was at an office party so I had indulged in a glass of wine but it was only one man that believed that was an invitation to do what he liked!