To tell you all what Alan Titchmarch thinks of 12-15 year old girls who dress 'inappropriately'

[RiffyWammal]

I'm so angry. On his show today in a discussion about sexual harassment and sexism he said something really vile. I will transcribe what he said exactly;

"A lot of 12, 13, 14, 15 year old girls are now walking down the street barely covered. I see crop tops on girls of 12 and skirts up here, in a way now I hate to say that thing which men say 'they are asking for it' but it strikes me that if a girl of 14 walks past a building site in a crop top and short skirt she's probably going to get whistled at and worse."

I'm disgusted as was Laura Bates from Everyday Sexism who stayed remarkably controlled as she countered this. The victim blaming, the implication that girls should jolly well cover up if they don't want to be harrassed, the attitude of 'how else do we expect men to react if they see a girl's legs and belly'? I could hardly believe my ears. The audience applauded him FFS

I think I am going to make a complaint to ITV. I just wanted to bring it to the attention of anyone else who might wish to do the same.

Latara - I have had similar arguments. I suggested a hood type arrangement with blinkers should be worn by men who can't control themselves. Or perhaps they could stay at home and only walk the streets when chaperoned.

I once got harassed in the street wearing a jumper & jeans in the rain.. yet other times I've worn miniskirts and not been bothered.

One of the times I was attacked (by a man I worked with) I was wearing a tunic, trousers, trainers and a long coat, no make up & hair in a bun!

It's not what you wear, it's the fact that you are a woman that gets you attacked unfortunately.

"What determines whether or not a woman gets raped is whether or not she meets a rapist, not how she dresses or behaves or where she goes."
Absolutely agree Sign. (Again, apologies for any conflation, I was talking about clothing with regards to catcalling.)

It just seems to be lots of ppl saying they get wolf whistled at.

Regarding catcalling I wonder if some men deliberately pick on younger girls because they know they are less likely to answer back - I know I got catcalled a lot more when I was under 20 than when I was older and I didn't dress any differently.
I think many men who catcall and harass women are bullies who like to see the women get embarrassed.

JumpRope

Don't be a tit. There's a lot more to it and you know it. My own personal experiences (which I've detailed above) alone show that.

If you're going to be a child why don't you leave the thread? This is an adult conversation. Let the grown-ups talk.

Can't find it sorry, threads are such a pain to navigate on ipad, I can see u being quite chippy, so I will leave, thanks anyway.

I don't think knowing what may result in a certain outcome is the same as excusing or condoning it.

I think it's sensible to take precautions to keep yourself safe or prevent behaviour towards you that you don't like.

I think it's very sad that the narrative to these discussions appears dominated by what the innocent party could do differently instead of why people (unfortunately primarily men) seem to persist with the notion their behaviour is accepted (witheringly) and they have no responsibility to modify their behaviour.

Interesting how you can see my other posts .

And yes, I am getting quite 'chippy' when you dismiss my (and lots of others) sexual harassment experiences as 'being wolf whistled at'.

Don't let the door bang your ignorant arse on the way out.

...or maybe because they get a kick from intimidating them?

I've never thought about it before but I definitely associate being catcalled/whistled at with being 16 and under. Older than that and I might get chatted up sometimes but that was never so intimidating, only irritating on occasion.

Yuck

Cornetto

It's cos it's only a laugh, innit? And some women like it. And the rest of us are just sourfaced old bags, dontcha know.

sourfaced old bags who hate sex dontcha know

When I was 30 a man grabbed me by the arm and said he was going to drag me into a nearby alley and fuck me in the arse. It was 4.45pm on a busy high street. I was wearing a football shirt and loose fitting jeans. I also had my (then) 9yo son with me.

At this point a woman from the shop we were outside came out and told him to leave me alone and that she'd phoned the police. He left, and I then found out that he'd done the same thing to a 12 year old girl in school uniform minutes before.

That man was not provoked by provocative outfits, he was a dick who thought it was okay to intimidate female people. He's not the only man who thinks that.

whiskwarrior and anyone else who is way off beam. I just love the way I personally am now responsible for and a part of the problem for everyday Sexism because I said that I don't mind the odd whistle. That's an extraordinary logic.

Telling me to "spare a thought" for girls who get sexually harrassed, because of one comment I made is also a massive leap across the divide. Like it is down to me, I have caused it (if only I knew, and you're here to educate me, thanks for that!)

Also pointing me towards some research. That's good too. I have plenty of knowledge about gender bias in both research and real world contexts, I just don't need to stick a broom up my arse and have a face like a kite to make the point.

Making such massive assumptions from one comment is interesting. Like you are the font of all knowledge on the matter. No I don't deliberately walk past building sites to validate my femininity (Im too busy bring up my family) in the meagre hope of getting a wolf whistle. Nor have I ever run to whoever it was and thank them or tell them they made me feel like a woman. No need for that, Im Ok in that regard.

So stop flattering yourself that you think Im so deluded and need to be taught the error of my ways. .

And Whenever the last time it was that I heard a whistle in my direction, I would have been dressed as I normally am, nothing hanging out, but not sackcloth either, just a regular person. I cant control every man and how they behave but I am fine with how I deal with it. Not with all this angst, nor do I have to feel ridden with guilt over every letching bloke's behaviour, I don't encourage it nor do I wish it on any other poor bugger either.

Well, obviously we hate sex. And men. And sex with men. Goes without saying, doesn't it?

YY I agree they often pick on younger girls and young women as they are more likely to get a reaction that they like - embarrassed / intimidated / flustered / scared.

That is amusing to them.

Proper grown-ups are more likely to answer back / report them to employer / police / give them a mouthful etc depending on the situation.

They are pathetic.

Certainly the peak of this type of thing for me was about 14 to 22 and after that it tailed off.

There was a lot of open leering as well when I was a younger teen which always made me feel ill.

I have always always hated this type of "attention" and I think it's revolting that girls and women are expected to put up with it / laugh it off and that people like Alan Titchmarsh seek to put the responsibility for this behaviour away from the grown men who do it and on to children.

Oh, and Hotfuzza - I have sons, I told them not to drink too much, to stick with friends, to always have enough money for a taxi home, etc. because I'm their mum, and I love them, and I know being alone and drunk with no money is a dangerous situation. I never warned them about how they dressed. Because, no one blames boys clothes if being young and drunk leads to a disaster.

OMG Daisy have you just said that children who don't like sexually aggressive approaches from grown men are "angst"ing?

While I can't deny my face has a whiff if sour bagginess about it, if someone came up to me unprompted to point it out to me I think most people would agree they were fucking rude and not advise me to wear a balaclava

Interesting parallel huh?

DaisyChain - you haven't a clue what people have been through. It's not angst when you've been sexually harassed as an early teen by grown men.

It's fucking terrifying and extremely upsetting.

I couldn't give a shiny shit about your educational background. Although if you have that much knowledge, how can you be so bloody blase about other people's experiences? Throwaway comments such as 'I like a wolfwhistle!' are really not helpful - how can you not see that?

And at no point was I claiming to be 'the font of all knowledge' just sharing my own experiences.

I saw a girl get cat called - she was wearing black jeans and a black jumper Mind you, she must have been a slut as she was young and beautiful. Perhaps she should've worn a burqa

I remember being harassed as a 13 yo in a knee-length denim skirt. I was terribly shy anyway and mortified.

Alan Titchmarsh clearly has signed up to the Sexist Knob Victim-Blaming Society.

Im outa here, night all.

Thing is alan's attitude is the same one that has led to hundreds upon hundreds of girls being sexually exploited and no-one doing anything about it even when they went to police and stuff.

It's not some kind of benign "old fashioned" view it is actively dangerous to view teenage / & younger girls in this way. To ascribe adult motivations and savvy to them when they are just children.

A 13yo in a short skirt isn't wearing it because she wants to attract sexual attention from all and sundry males. She is wearing it because it's the fashion and maybe she hopes Dave from school will give her a second look - oftentimes it's literally just because it's the fashion though. She is not wearing it because she likes old men leering at her - when they do that she may well be baffled as to her it is just the uniform of her age group.

Grown men know this, frankly, but they like to pretend they are bamboozled by these temptresses who are deliberately setting out to lure them and they just can't help themselves. It's patent nonsense.

Some of the posters on this thread are making me want to weep with despair.

We don't need to teach young girls to 'be careful' and 'cover up'. We need to teach people not to rape! To respect other peoples rights and bodies as human beings! Jesus Christ!

yup, NT, it's much a step after that to say that young girls getting raped by predatory men and passed around like so much sexual baggage were making a "lifestyle choice" is it ?