Woman who is blind in the Quiet Coach - was I unreasonable? [Title edited by MN at request of OP]

[TheOpaqueAndJelliedTruth]

I was going to post this on the thread about small, unreasonable irritations, but I don't actually know if I was being unreasonable. I was in the quiet coach on a long-distance train, trying to sleep. They'd just done the 'and coach B is the quiet coach, please do not use mobile phones etc.' bit. I know sometimes they book you into a quiet coach automatically, but I'm pretty certain they don't on this train. FWIW.

A woman was using a phone that played messages to her, quite loudly. After a few minutes when it was clear she wasn't planning to stop anytime soon, I got up and said excuse me, this is the quiet coach, would you mind not using your phone? She totally ignored me, so I repeated myself, and I realized at this point that she was blind (hence, obviously, needing her phone to play her messages, which I hadn't cottoned on to).

The bloke sitting next to me said, as I sat down, that she was probably using her phone because she was blind - I got the impression he meant I'd been unfair to ask her to stop.

What do you reckon? On the one hand, obviously she has a disability. On the other hand, it's still rude to be disturbing a whole coach of people, many of whom were clearly trying to sleep. And I've no clue why she completely ignored me, as obviously she could hear.

No I still don't agree MrsD. Because I very much doubt that there is a ban on people using phones to text in silence with the sound turned off. But I can think of good reasons why that woman would need to use the phone whilst sitting, in a safe spot, then struggling to use it in a crowd on the platform.

This is a nuts thread.

The OP asked whether SHE was being unreasonable for asking the woman to stop using her phone and then being out out at being ignored.

No, she wasn't. She didn't know that the woman was blind, and it is not remotely unreasonable to be a bit out out that someone you have spoken to politely has apparently completely ignored you.

Some of these posts are addressing whether the woman herself was unreasonable for playing her messages loudly in the quiet coach.

How can we know? Too many variables.

If she didn't know it was the quiet coach, or had some compelling need to listen to her messages without the capacity to keep them quiet, then, obviously, she wasn't being unreasonable.

If she knew it was the quiet coach and just thought, "Stuff 'em" then yes! that is pretty unreasonable.

But either scenario is conjecture because neither the OP or anyone of us knows why she was playing her messages loudly in the first place.

OP asked if HER actions were unreasonable...and under those particular circumstances, no. How could they be?

no I don't think the op was unreasonable either fwiw.

Can I relay a funny story here though about my travels on trains...?

As I said upthread I always wear headphones when I use my phone, but I also blank my screen because anyone could essentially be reading my messages.... So there I was doing something on my phone when a woman tapped me on the shoulder and said, "excuse me, your phone isn't working." I explained to her that I blank my screen but that it talks to me through headphones so yes it is working fine. She then became really insistant "But it isn't working!" I really, really "the only reason you know that is because you've obviously been trying to read it over my shoulder." but I didn't.

That is funny, wannabe, but also infuriating. Why is it some people always think they know better?

I've always been really tempted to start pointed MN threads 'someone is reading over my shoulder ... wow, such a nosy fucker ...' as I've seen it recommended on here. But I've never quite had the front.

Sure. And for some people a headphone might be the right thing. And other people do not manage that well using a headphone. A level playing field is also about accepting that what be right for one isn't for another.

I do think this notion that people with disabilities should be treated differently purely because they have a disability and their lives must be oh so awful incredibly patronising actually.

As I said further down there could be any number of reasons why someone wouldn't know they were in the quiet coach or might not have responded to the op but equally I know blind people who would be perfectly capable of deliberately ignoring the op or even telling her to fuck off. Having a disability doesn't make you immune from being unpleasant - and neither does it justify unpleasantness in the name of the "hard life they must lead."

As for overcoming obstacles just to travel alone, well today I have been on five buses and two trains and I didn't have to overcome any obstacles to do that. Some people are less confident at travelling but that doesn't just apply to the disabled - I travel in and around London, on the underground and overground all the time and I am unphased by it. My mum on the other hand comes into London and exclaims at the chaos and wonders how anyone manages to do it and she is perfectly sighted.

Wannabe, I don't think anyone has said her life must be so awful, I have said that she may have overcome obstacles to travel, as a person with disabilities I find travel hard sometimes. I don't wish to offend or patronise anyone!

I do get that everyone should be treated on a level playing field and we are all individuals some nice, some not so nice, disabilities or not. And as a parent of a DC with SN, I curl my toes at all the "oh I don't know how you do it, it takes a special kind of person" and all that guff so I know where you're coming from.

My point about sucking up minor inconveniences to make other peoples lives easier if you can, applies to everyone, disabilities or no disabilities.

Mrsdevere, being woken up at 4.30am is NEVER a MINOR inconvenience

I do think this notion that people with disabilities should be treated differently purely because they have a disability and their lives must be oh so awful incredibly patronising actually.

and

There are adaptations available. If she is listening to short messages it is possible to use an earphone.
It would not put her at risk for a few minutes at a time if she used one.

I am absolutely up for people with disabilities being given a level playing field in ALL areas.

Sometimes all that takes is a very minor adaptation. It doesn't always have to be a massive issue.

What WanneBe and MrsDeVere said.

My parents would be horrified about being patronised. They learn skills and use gadgets (like headphones) to allow them to operate in the real world and follow the rules like everyone else.

TheOpaque did nothing wrong as far as I can see.

If it is a booked/rserved ticket - well on thetrainline.com you can't usually choose where you sit and all tickets come reserved where reservations are possible. I have often been reserved a seat in the quiet coach without knowing about it until I turn up to the station.

Anyone else travelling in that coach would still have been able to use their phone and it wouldn't have been an issue.

No-one else in that coach would be able to use their phone for listening to messages.

It's not clear whether this person pre-booked or not, but it does seem to me that if you are blind and need to listen to messages during your journey, the first step you take is to book a seat in a non-quiet carriage.

When I've pre-booked via thetrainline I've been given the option of choosing a quiet carriage. But anyway, if it isn't possible you can book by phone and specify that.

But, Mrs DV, exactly the same consideration applies to people who want to listen to music or play voicemail messages. And you're not supposed to listen to music or the radio in the quiet carriages even using headphones.

She had booked (I said upthread). The ticket guy asked for her seat reservation. But, I take the point she might have needed somewhere quiet enough for her to be sure of hearing annoucements.

To be fair, in this quiet carriage (and all others I've been in), you are allowed to use headphones and in fact, they often remind you to do so.

I think its unlikely that a person travelling alone would be so incapacitated that the use of an earphone in one ear for five minutes would be impossible.

Hmm, my db finds it very disorientating. So he doesn't use earphone. I'm not sure that incapacitated is the right word really. Surely that if something makes someone feel genuinely really uncomfortable within themselves then that should be enough. I accept that at times he might be a selfish twat, like most people are at times, but not for something like this.

Would a sighted person be able to use their phone on silent to pick up messages??? If so I think it would be reasonable for a blind person to listen to theirs through earphones but not out loud.

If other passengers are not even allowed to use phones on silent then neither should the blind person unless the rule puts them at a disadvantage.

I booked a seat via thetrainline.com, recently, and got to choose whether or not I wanted the quiet coach and whether I preferred facing forwards or backwards, table seat or airline seat. Maybe that depends on the train you're booking, though. Mine was crosscountry.

It's weird that she would even want her messages heard in a public place. Especially if it was a string of messages which implies it is a conversation rather than something urgent which she may need to hear urgently and headphones aren't suitable for her for some reason. YANBU, she shouldn't have been doing that in the quiet carriage.

I'm really enjoying hearing the experiences of Wannabe