To think the Scottish tourism industry is going to be hugely affected by the referendum, whatever the outcome

[Bearbehind]

Just been reading some of the indyref threads and it made me think about the affect on Scottish tourism, mainly from English tourists,

I know it's only one factor in the grand scheme of things but it seems damned to me whatever the result.

There is such an anti English sentiment at the moment I don't think many English people will be rushing up there for a holiday will they?

West Wales

Hmmm

Agree with a number of other posters that whatever the outcome, from a tourism POV there will be only one winner - Wales .

With regards to tourism, I will continue to take holidays in England - regardless of the result tomorrow. Despite the anti Scottish opinions I have read on mumsnet.

If I was going to take offence at everything I hear through media and isolated experiences, I doubt I would leave my house.

Just out of interest (and not sure if someone's made this point already - this thread was mahoosive when I got here) but those saying they won't continue to visit Scotland as a tourist destination in the event of a YES victory as they will want to support the "home nations" economies. Up to now, have you tended to holiday only in the UK so as to support the local economy?

This is a genuine question, not a snidey dig - I can honestly say that the consideration of holiday destinations for us up to now (and we've holidayed in the UK more than abroad over the last few years) has never included the factoring in of which local economy we would be supporting. I'm wondering now if we're unusual on that point and if we might need to consider this from now on. Though there's no way I'm giving up visit Yorkshire whatever happens with the vote - LOVE that place!

Of course most Scots don't hate the English. Very few do. But one bad experience on holiday can be a miserable experience. I've posted above that my DS was told to fuck off home three times at the Edinburgh Festival. No local told his aggressors to shut up. That's the pity. Why?

I can't believe the nonsense on this thread.

Fairy if you are considering a Scottish island for your Easter hols, you might want to try Skye. The population there is something like 80% English.

Where I live, a fair amount of the most ardent Yes people are English. The most ardent No people are Scottish. Everyone is rubbing along just fine and there is a tremendous atmosphere.

I own a holiday cottage and business this year has been very good. Got some guests coming up from England next week.

HTH

TheBogQueen
There will always be degrees of racism. The racism that Jews experienced in Nazi Germany is worst than anything experienced by black people in London. (With the expection of those who are murdered I suppose.) However just because there is extreme racism (ie. genocide) does not make minor racism ie. rudeness or discrimination in the work place exceptable.

Thankfully people being murdered because of their race is very rare anywhere in the UK. I feel that the cases of racism that the Scotsman mention are serious. Surely beating up a seven year old boy because he is English is racism beyond what most black people in London ever experience. Thankfully such behaviour is incredibly rare in either England or Scotland.

Just because you have never experienced or witnessed racism does not mean that it does not exist. All racism is unacceptable whatever colour the victim's skin is.

Of course most Scots don't hate the English. Very few do. But one bad experience on holiday can be a miserable experience. I've posted above that my DS was told to fuck off home three times at the Edinburgh Festival. No local told his aggressors to shut up. That's the pity. Why?

That is a pity but for the same reasons anyone else anywhere else doesn't get involved when stuff like this happens. It's not a particular Scottish trait.

You miss the point that if you are not different races it is not racism. All racism is bigotry but not all bigotry is racism. Beating up someone for being English in Scotland is bigotry. All bigotry is just as wrong even without the label 'racism'. I wish people wouldn't keep trying to make the definition of racism expand to make it the same as bigotry. I do realise I lost this linguistic battle a long time ago though.

I have lost the will to live training to explain the difference between racism/bigotry/discrimination on this thread, waffles. Feel your pain.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism

"Legal

The UN does not define "racism"; however, it does define "racial discrimination": According to the United Nations Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination,

the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction, or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin that has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.[25]

This definition does not make any difference between discrimination based on ethnicity and race, in part because the distinction between the two remains debatable among anthropologists.[26] Similarly, in British law the phrase racial group means "any group of people who are defined by reference to their race, colour, nationality (including citizenship) or ethnic or national origin".[27]"

Scots being nasty to someone because they are English is considered "racial discrimination" in British law. As far as I know the SNP has no plans to have a different definition of racism to the rest of the UK.

There is no such thing a British law.

There is English and Welsh law, which is the same.

Both Scotland and Northern Ireland have different legal systems. To each other as well as to English and Welsh law.

HTH

There are plenty of statutes which apply to the whole of the UK. Tax, corporate law, road traffic , equality legislation, sexual conduct to name a few.

I am sure I cannot be alone in being angry and frustrated that there are billions of people in need in this world and yet if the " yes to independence for Scotland " wins then the cost of setting up new systems for this that and the other, moving a nuclear power plant, having separate armed forces etc is going to run into billions of pounds.
Money that does not need to be spent. That money which is suddenly going to be available could be spent on lifting people from poverty - both in the UK and abroad.
Please, please think of the bigger picture and not just yourself when voting. Please.

Grumble number 2 !
I am a long term volunteer working for charity abroad and cannot vote. I own property in Scotland, I am Scottish, my family all live there - but no vote. The Eastern European immigrant done the street can vote. It is crazy. Please can someone undecided use their vote and say " No " from me.
The madness and greed in this world has to stop.
Seriously, the vast majority of people in Scotland are not that badly done by.
Please think of the waste of money.
Please vote NO.
Faith.

Over the last few weeks, I've read all the threads on here and comments on articles and found it fascinating.

I think that many Scottish internet warriors have made it very much about being anti-English at any cost, and after a while it starts getting to you and all anti-union sentiment comes across blurred into anti-English sentiment. I see some nice things you yes voters say (e.g. we'll still be friends, it's not you, it's us wanting x etc etc), but it feels like you're just paying lip service. We all know when someone says 'it's not you, it's me', it actually is you.

rUK are not the ones pushing the Scots out, so saying that rUK is anti-Scot is immediately shown to be a pithy tit for tat retort.

I may have explained that very badly, but I can imagine that the anger and resentment if Scotland leave will certainly put rUK people off visiting Scotland out of spite maybe, and if they don't leave, rUK will not visit as they will fear the couple of million of bitterly disappointed and angry yes voters who may take their anger out on anyone with an English accent. Obviously I'm generalising massively and there are always exceptions.

But they won't.

We said they are THINKING it's all about them..i.e. that the desire for independence is motivated purely by anti English feeling/anger at the English..which it isn't. Not MAKING it about them.

The Eastern European immigrant done the street can vote. It is crazy.

It's not crazy. It's a decision for the people who live in Scotland right now. This is not about ethnicity. It's about a change of constitution.

It's absolutely right that immigrants such as I should have a right to vote - I work here, pay tax and educate my children in Scotland as do all the Danish, Pakistani, Polish, German, Icelandic, Irish, Italian, Spanish, Arab, Lithuanian people who life around us. Because they are Scots.

It's one of the best things about this referendum - the chance to take ownership of a country and participate in deciding it's future no matter where you are from.

It would be completely wrong for someone who resides abroad but lend property in a country to be able to vote - I think we got rid of that in 1830.

Seriously ipads..your loss if you miss out on the Scottish scenery just out of bitterness that Scots get a referendum/ powers to deal with their own issues.

Being given the power to determine what happens in their own country means the "rest of you have to sit and watch as more powers handed over"?

Sorry but that does sound ridiculous and egocentric.

Very sad that some people feel bitter like this :(

Wow, this thread has moved on overnight.

I still find it very interesting that there continues to be a clear divide of opinion on the thread but that those who think everything will be just fine are those who live in Scotland.

Does it not concern you even a little bit that the very vast majority of people who have the same concerns as me are very very people who would be tourists?