Church attendance and sport

[FrootLoopy]

If you are a firm believer in attending church regularly, how do you square this up with your desire for your DC to play a sport regularly, when that sport happens to fall on a Sunday morning?

DS1 loves a particular sport (DH has passed on his passion for it) which isn't as common as others, and all the clubs around here seem to do training for it on a Sunday morning. Next school year (or perhaps even birthday if they allow mid season starts) he will be old enough to start training at the clubs. Games don't actually start until he is a few years older though.

But I run Sunday club for half the month, the DC attend it with me, both DH and I are firm Christians and do lots of extra duties at church. The church is quite central to our lives in the community.

I'm finding this difficult to square up. I know there are evensong services (CofE) but they're not the same as communion services at 10 am and we don't have them at our local church so would have to go further afield anyway, the 8 am services are just too early and too 'plain' for the DC - and for me tbh.

We used to attend a cathedral, but have moved to a local parish church when our DC were old enough to understand things, so that they could be part of a church community.

There aren't a lot of other children at church, so if mine suddenly don't attend I think the Sunday school would close, tbh.

But I really want him to play this sport, and if he doesn't start training at the same age as other children, he won't ever have the chance to progress in it.

How do others deal with this?

Check to see Whether there is a Saturday club rather than a Sunday club for the sport he enjoys.

There isn't Arna. It's not a major sport that has lots of clubs.

This is interesting to me as my sister was stopped playing sport as a child because our parents thought it more important to go to church. She now no longer attends church at all and part of this is the resentment being forced to go when she would rather have been playing netball.

What about you LadySybilVimes? How do you feel about it?

I would say field hockey is widely played at secondary school level - or rather is in this area. I played for my school and we were never short of opponents!

I think my parents were foolish and unbiblical not to encourage their child in the talents God had given her. God is bigger than a sunday service.

Foiled again!

Ok - thinking - roughly how many times a year is your dh away? How many weeks a year is hockey on? (School terms are only 38 but sometimes things also don't run the w/e before and after term starts / ends either.) How often is Sunday club? Is it always you running it or can you draft someone else in occasionally? How strict is hockey on attendance? Is the fun for attending church for the kids just from Sunday club or is it from church generally? What is the age gap between your two? (Ie if you go for hockey then how long will ds2 be losing out for?) are there any hockey holiday clubs / summer schools you could use for a year?

Mumoftwoyoungkids -

roughly how many times a year is your dh away? No real idea yet. Relatively new business. But so far he can be away for 3 weeks at a time, but usually it is only a couple of days and back latest on Saturday. But he needs to be able to travel at a moments notice.

How many weeks a year is hockey on? (School terms are only 38 but sometimes things also don't run the w/e before and after term starts / ends either.) Winter sport - so I guess it runs the same time as football, so most of the school year I assume, bar maybe the 3rd term?

How often is Sunday club? Is it always you running it or can you draft someone else in occasionally? - a few people have put their hand up to 'help me' but not to run a session. It's only twice a month, during term time. I'm hoping that once a few of them have 'helped me' throughout the course of the year, they might be willing to run sessions on their own, even if I have to set the topic and activity.

How strict is hockey on attendance? - not sure, but I guess not too strict for the first year, but once the games start it becomes more strict.

Is the fun for attending church for the kids just from Sunday club or is it from church generally? Both, they enjoy both, and with the current arrangement they get both.

What is the age gap between your two? (Ie if you go for hockey then how long will ds2 be losing out for?) 2 school years, slightly more calendar years.

are there any hockey holiday clubs / summer schools you could use for a year? - I haven't found any! As it is there are only 2 clubs within accessible distance, one 5 minutes away, the other 25 minutes away. So I can't see there being enough children playing the sport to have a hockey summer club. (The distance will also mean that when they start playing games, it will be quite a trek for the away games)

Re:- chariots of fire.

1924 Paris Olympics.

Harold Abrahams - posh, rich, English, Jewish, arrogant, uptight.

Eric Liddell - Scottish, very committed Christian, nice guy, arguably more talented. Believed God got pleasure from his running.

Both 100m runners. Heat on a Sunday. Liddell refused to run. Went to church. Rather handsome posh chap called Lord Lindsay had already won a silver in the 200m offered him his spot in the 440.

Abrahams won the 100m. Liddell won the 440m. Explanations as to how he won a race he hadn't trained for are:-

1. God made him run faster
2. He believed God made him run faster so ran faster
3. He was just a natural 440 runner.

Liddell went somewhere or other to be a missionary and died at the end of WW2. Abrahams married his singer girlfriend.

LOL, the real explanation is that training in those days was very different, none of the athletes were trained to the extent that they are today, therefore, the type of training they did was not so relevant or specific. Liddell would/could have won either race.

I read Abrahams' biography - that's not how he was painted at all

I hope you don't regret posting here too much OP - I think you've started a really good debate.

Reading your posts through again, I can see you're reaching a decision too so hope it has helped you.

We've chosen sport over the church. We are healthier, meet more people and the dc have a bigger circle of friends as a result. And they are only 5&3yrs.

Well - you have a year so I guess spend the time getting your helpers up to scratch and perhaps putting in some basic lesson plans (ie first Sunday in October do harvest festival, third Sunday do Noah's ark, 1st Sunday in November do rememberebce day, third do Christingle candles, then in December do the Nativity play) so it is easy for someone else to help out as they will have done it all before.

Perhaps extend Sunday club to holidays as well so DS1 can do it when he isn't playing hockey.

Hopefully by then you will have more idea about dh's business and will be able to make plans a bit.

Try and cultivate lift share friends at hockey.

And accept that sometimes ds1 will have to miss hockey and come to church and sometimes ds2 will have to miss church and watch hockey. It's not as if you are forcing one of them down a mine. It's for a short time - once they are 11 they will be able to do hockey through school if they want to prioritise church or go to evening church services if they want to prioritise hockey.

It's interesting that you say that your kids are really the only thing keeping the sunday school open and also that your vicar is understandably concerned not to start things that can't be sustained.

That does suggest to me that if you were able to help to sustain a church community that revolved less around sunday mornings, it might be rewarded by a growth in your church community. Because it is an oldfashioned model, to require Sundays for worship. Saying that Sundays are now needed for other things is not to diminish the importance of worship. It's just putting worship on a par with other important things.

a pp wrote Problem with these these religious threads is you get a lot of well meaning people but who do not have a faith coming on to give advice not really understanding the importance or significance of certain practices. I think that's a little harsh. perhaps what some of us can offer is an outside perspective that isn't dismissive or hostile, but which reminds you that not everything about existing practice is untouchable.

I would perhaps write down what it is that sundays offer apart from the actual communion. it may be that you have to split the fellowship side and deal with it separately- for instance by going to the 8am service to take communion, but hosting a house church type meeting once a week in a quieter evening, for fun and fellowship and for making church part of their lives.

DH's parents would've prioritised the Sunday morning service over everything when they were growing up. Neither DH nor BIL are at all resentful - both actually grew up to be pretty devout Christians. About half the children in their little church grew up to be practising Christians too. So its not always the case that children whose parents make those choices grow up seething with resentment!

My father used to say....."You don't have to go to Church to pray or be a Christian."

We were in this position with football. My son played in goal so he was chosen every week. We didn't want to make him resentful of God, the church etc, so we said he could play, thinking he would go to Youth group on Fridays, and church when it wasn't football season. What actually happened was that he started to lose touch with his friends from church, and so was reluctant to go at all. I suppose many on here will say 'his choice', and to an extent they're right. But as his parent I wonder if I made the wrong choice as far as ' bringing up a child in the way he should go'. (Proverbs 22:6) But maybe he would have left anyway, but with even more reason never to return. Who knows

not accusing you of anything. Read your post.

bye.

Firstly, to those who have extreme views either way, either sport no church, church no sport - I'm afraid neither are helpful. This is a discussion on how I balance the two, not strike one out in favour of the other. If you think trying to balance it out is wrong then that is something for another thread, not for me on this one.

HelenaQC - you said it's no different to giving up any other family time in favour of another commitment, but you see, to me it is different. It is part of my fundamental beliefs, and it is part of where I get strength from. So it needs to take precedence over other things.

BUT - not to the detriment of ALL other things. I don't want to be a part of a religion that frowns on anything that might take some of my attention away, and requires me to prioritise it over EVERYTHING ALL THE TIME. Been there, got the t-shirt, it wasn't nice. It needs to be a PART of my life, and as such it needs to work with the whole of my life, and of my children's lives.

CallOfTheRiled - that is exactly what I don't want to have happen. I want both DSs to feel a part of this community. It is why I chose to send them to village infant school. It is why we stopped attending the cathedral and started attending our local church. I'm hoping the youth group will help continue it. It's also why I don't see just attending some other church that happens to have a later service as the solution to the problem. It is only a solution to PART of the problem.

somewherewest - not everyone will feel resentment. Not everyone has conflicting interests, though. If you want to play football you can find dozens of clubs locally on Saturday mornings or during the week after school.

Mumoftwoyoungkids - in all honesty I don't WANT to extend Sunday school into the holidays. To do that I need to book the days in, in advance, to have them published in the parish magazine etc. The few other children who attend who almost all be away. And I want the time off. Selfish? Maybe, but in this instance I reserve the right to be. Besides, most things go into downtime in the school holidays around here.

Oh and DS will be able to do hockey through school soon anyway, so that's not the issue. But it's the one sport that we and he would like to follow through with club playing.

Thanks everyone for your input. Some things I've really disagreed with, but seeing them in writing helped me to focus on WHY I disagreed with them, so thank you. Those who understand the dilemma and have posted more supportive posts, thank you. It's nice to have others who understand where I am coming from.

If it works like football Aug-Mar that is 8 months, so 16 sunday clubs. Assuming you alternate with a helper you will need 8 lots of help. If parents at the hockey club and or your dh help with taking him then that could be even less.
You could also attend your regular service fortnightly and vary the alternate weeks.
It is doable with a little help and support which I am sure a church community would be able to provide.
If ds has to miss the odd training session then I dont think it would be a huge problem at this early stage.

My child's interests would be more important than going to church, to be honest.

icanmakeyouicecream - for you maybe, but for me going to church IS in my child's interests.

But what does he want to do, what would he rather?

littledrummergirl - It's finding someone to share with to pick up the slack when DH isn't around, isn't it? It's a very local club, fortunately, so I have more chance of doing that.

Lets see what the next few months with my new 'helpers' bring. They may be willing to run a few on their own if I give them everything they need to do it.

I guess it's good to start this when they are only doing training and have it sorted out before the competitive games start, as the initial teething problems aren't such a big deal.