Church attendance and sport

[FrootLoopy]

If you are a firm believer in attending church regularly, how do you square this up with your desire for your DC to play a sport regularly, when that sport happens to fall on a Sunday morning?

DS1 loves a particular sport (DH has passed on his passion for it) which isn't as common as others, and all the clubs around here seem to do training for it on a Sunday morning. Next school year (or perhaps even birthday if they allow mid season starts) he will be old enough to start training at the clubs. Games don't actually start until he is a few years older though.

But I run Sunday club for half the month, the DC attend it with me, both DH and I are firm Christians and do lots of extra duties at church. The church is quite central to our lives in the community.

I'm finding this difficult to square up. I know there are evensong services (CofE) but they're not the same as communion services at 10 am and we don't have them at our local church so would have to go further afield anyway, the 8 am services are just too early and too 'plain' for the DC - and for me tbh.

We used to attend a cathedral, but have moved to a local parish church when our DC were old enough to understand things, so that they could be part of a church community.

There aren't a lot of other children at church, so if mine suddenly don't attend I think the Sunday school would close, tbh.

But I really want him to play this sport, and if he doesn't start training at the same age as other children, he won't ever have the chance to progress in it.

How do others deal with this?

During communion services when I was a child and again as an adult the unconfirmed children are able to go up and receive a blessing rather than full communion.

It has always bugged me that lots of sport activities take place on a Sunday morning. It has caused lots of wrangles for church-going families I know. I really don't know why it has to be Sundays. It makes a really difficult choice for some people.

Having the right to bring up your child your way does not (certainly should not) include the right to tell them what their beliefs are and to insist that they are a part of an organisation just because you are.

If your child is over 8, then ask them what they'd like to do on Sunday mornings. If they want both church and sport, then explain that that's not possible and work it out that way. Just like you would if it was rugby vs drama class.

"I want him to go to church because I have decided that he is a Christian just like me" is indoctrination. Nothing less.

We had this. I am a Sunday School teacher and we've always been quite active at church. DS (now 9) wanted to play rugby - Sunday morning training - with most of his friends doing it too.

How does your church calendar work? We have one special "Family Service" per month - the other Sundays are just normal services (still fairly family oriented with Sunday School) and we tried, if at all possible, for him to come to that Family Service but go to Rugby the other weeks. In the early years that worked quite well, as he's got older that has worked less well as its a kind of "miss training, no selection for team" or more matches (rather than training) so he couldn't actually attend. My H takes him, I attend church with the other children.

Whilst religion is important, I do think that its his choice. He chose Rugby and wanted to do what his friends do. We (try to) live a Christian life at home, he knows that and the fact that he doesn't necessarily attend the service doesn't mean (in my view) he's any less of a Christian than he was at home. Its about (in my view) living our lives as Christians and fitting every day life around that because it should be central to everything we do. Saying that his faith is diluted in some way because he plays rugby instead doesn't fit with the message that we try to convey that God is with us always.

There's not much point generalising about the CofE when there is so much variation in practice and attitude.

I agree HelenaQC

My parents tried to raise all 5 of us as Catholic, but fortunately they didn't do it to the detriment of anything we really wanted to do on a Sunday.

Tryingnottolaugh, it depends on your diocese. Where I am (Ely) children are generally admitted to communion before confirmation, other dioceses have different policies London I believe won't do this. But even within dioceses there is variation, because that's the nature of the CofE it's a very diverse denomination.

when they reach an age at which they can understand the meaning of the Eucharist or Holy Communion (to the extent as any of us ever can understand)

So, I doubt your average 4 yr old can just rock up at the alter and demand communion then. But interesting to know.

""I want him to go to church because I have decided that he is a Christian just like me." Who said this, Helena? Going to church doesn't make you a Christian, just like not going to church doesn't mean that you are not a Christian.

Actually that raises a lot of questions, because what do you do about adults with learning disabilities who want to take communion but may not be able to "understand", cognitively speaking, the meaning of the Eucharist?

That's one reason why some churches will give communion to any baptised person, because the grace of God doesn't depend on you understanding how it works (goodness knows I don't understand myself! )

If your child is over 8, then ask them what they'd like to do on Sunday mornings. If they want both church and sport, then explain that that's not possible and work it out that way. Just like you would if it was rugby vs drama class.

Or he could have the choice of attending service earlier in the morning.

But, what if the parents had other commitments at the time of that particular sport. It could be work, visiting a relative that needed support. Whatever it was. Then the child might have to choose another sport that wouldn't clash with that commitment.

Having re-read the OP, though:
Next school year (or perhaps even birthday if they allow mid season starts) he will be old enough to start training at the clubs. Games don't actually start until he is a few years older though.
It is not to start for another year or at least mid-season. He will be older.
And could the DH provide some training, so that you could mix going to training sessions and services?

The point for me isn't really about WHERE Dino wants to spend every Sunday.
It could be a church, mosque or the Flippin Trafford Centre for all I care.
For me the point is that Dino ( and presumably Mr Dino) have made a choice that this is how they want to spend every Sunday - mini Dinos have NOT made this choice and while they might be happy to go along with this for the time being or even forever ( I would be surprised though) they might find that they wish to do something else on Sundays or even nothing at all.
We aren't religious but if I said to my children (5 and 9) that from now on they had to do the same thing every Sunday and couldn't go to parties or see friends or do anything else apart from what I prescribed i am pretty sure there would be dissension in the ranks!
Of course with really young children you make the decisions but as they get older surely they have a say? ( within reason)

OP

OK - I can understand why you don't want to go to the 8am. It's very likely there aren't many people there, there aren't usually many opportunities for fellowship, and they are often not suitable for young children. And I can see why you want to go to communion rather than evensong - you are not likely to get many Sunday night communion services unless you live in a collegiate university town.

I guess you are probably not Catholic or you would probably have mentioned the possibility of Saturday evening mass. If you are high-up-the-candle Anglicans there might be an Anglo-Catholic shack around that does Saturday evening Eucharist.

Otherwise, if he really really wants to do the sport, what I think I'd do is alternate between you and your DH taking him to the sport, see how it goes and maybe think about seeing if there's enough demand in the area to set up a Saturday or Sunday afternoon club yourselves. And there must be an off season at some point in the year where training doesn't happen, so you can all go to church together then. I think it's important he doesn't end up perceiving church as being a (literal) spoilsport. You could find him other church activities like a weekday youth club if he would like that.

Other question: would they let him occasionally miss training sessions for important Sunday occasions like Easter?

I think it's a bit sad that the training times are all so rigid - there might be plenty of children who can't make Sunday mornings for various reasons.

The people who are saying "you don't need to go to church to be a Christian/if you're Anglican" fundamentally don't get it. Being a Christian is not simply about ticking a list of beliefs. It is a relational way of life. Being part of a community of Christians and specifically participating in the Eucharist are totally central aspects of most Christians' existence. It is as important for Anglicans as Catholics, and is obviously important to OP or she wouldn't be asking.

"Other question: would they let him occasionally miss training sessions for important Sunday occasions like Easter?
our football club certainly would! and does"

I think it's a bit sad that the training times are all so rigid - there might be plenty of children who can't make Sunday mornings for various reasons.

*it's usually when the volunteers who run it are free. Lots of people work on Saturdays.

We attend church, and have various "duties" that we're signed up to.

My stance on the children is that if it's a one off (party, audition, activity) that can only be done then then that gets sorted round. One of me or dh will make sure our duties are covered so the dc can attend.

I wouldn't be happy if it was a every week thing, and would try and work round it, but at least partually because I dislike being flakey in commitments.

You can think of it in a different form.
My dm and df used to go round to an old lady's house on Saturday mornings. Dm would chat and df would do any DIY and things. They were commited to doing this. It also had to be Saturday morning for a variety of reasons, one of which was that it was her only contact with the outside world on Saturdays. Weekday she had meals on wheels and Sunday she had a relative that would phone up. Saturday afternoon she liked to have free for writing letters.
Now that was a commitment that to my dp was pretty unmovable. Yes, if we were away, or something little came up they could move it by half an hour or so, but they didn't like to change it often.
Not because they had to go there. But because they had committed to go there they didn't feel it was fair to let her down.
If one of us had wanted a regular commitment at that time it would have been a no chance, and we understood it. We didn't resent it, it was just one of those things like school at 8:45 on Monday morning. And actually I think we, as dc, are all now pretty reliable if we have committed to something, as we saw that dp took commitment seriously too.

niminy, that is an interesting question. From my own church experience, if someone identified as a Christian, had been baptised, and wanted to take communion, even if they didn't understand it fully, then they would be allowed to and indeed encouraged to. Taking communion is, I think, a serious thing before God and he is the one who examines our consciences and sees our motivation (can't quite think of the right word here) and so would be glorified by it if any believer sincerely wishes to take communion.

Psalm 8 talks about how babies and children can praise God and they clearly have a very rudimentary faith in those cases, so I think God sees our faith from the position that we are at, rather than waiting for us to be the finished products, which, of course, we can never be until we are in heaven.

Or he could have the choice to attend early in the morning

Of course he could. That would be an option (presumably) put to him if he wanted church AND rugby.

But it must be his choice....that's the point.

hoppinggreen, "We aren't religious but if I said to my children (5 and 9) that from now on they had to do the same thing every Sunday and couldn't go to parties or see friends or do anything else apart from what I prescribed i am pretty sure there would be dissension in the ranks!"

I don't feel from that comment that you have read about how we and many of the families in our church spend our Sundays. It's a lovely day together and with other people, doing all sorts of things together. I don't make them sit on a cold hard pew all afternoon reciting the King James Bible!

And in our experience, despite your scepticism, the older children/young adults in our church do continue to come along to church. I'm just sorry that some people here clearly haven't seen a vibrant church where this is the norm.

Or perhaps another way of looking at it is, I have 3 dc. If dd2 decides she wants to do (eg) drama, we look for a drama club that doesn't clash with dd1's activities or ds' activities. If there isn't one then she doesn't get to do drama. (they all do similar number of activities). It would be wrong to say "dd1 you have to stop ballet because dd2 wants to do drama", and the dc know that.
It has happened in the past that one does want to do something that can't work with the time we have, and the dc accept that. It can be discussed if the other one isn't sure whether they are continuing, or if there is an equivalent club the first one could do, but as a general rule, the one who has started gets first priority.

BTW, the OP never said what the sport was. :)

I do need to go now (school run) but it has been a fascinating chat. I'll come back in 10 years with the DC's opinions!

"dd2 decides she wants to do (eg) drama, we look for a drama club that doesn't clash with dd1's activities or ds' activities. If there isn't one then she doesn't get to do drama"

Or don't you see how you can juggle things- maybe lift sharing or something- so that she can do drama?

I will say...as an atheist who despises indoctrination of children....that some of my fondest memories of childhood are Sunday mornings at church. Making pics of the baby Jesus with fuzzy felt, wondering how all the animals fit on the Ark...then heading home for roast dinner and trifle.

Did me no harm. The act of going to church generally doesn't harm children. Taking away their right to choose once they are old enough to is what can potentially be harmful.

(I say "generally" because there are certainly some church experiences that can be actively harmful. The dear old CofE rarely is, in my experience).

wondering how all the animals fit on the Ark

Quite. :) But that is for a different thread. ;)

Is there a Saturday service? I am going to go swimming with DC on Sundays so plan to go to the 6pm Saturday service instead