School is a very inconvenient form of 'childcare'

[naty1]

The hours just dont match for 9-5 working. Then the holidays are much longer, and everyone at work wants those same days.

I can see that nursery 8-6 is much easier for work, everyday except xmas week.
Or more jobs that fit school hours.
Compress the hours into fewer says of the week

Did she say that badvoc?!!

I'm lucky that despite working I've never had to send the dc's in sick. Mum has been able to have them or their puking has fallen on my day off. My OU law module came in handy because I found out I had rights to unpaid dependents leave when the kids are ill. I get the impression the personnel dept weren't amused by me pulling that legislation out of the bag but 3 months later the missed hours were docked from my pay and the employment book was updated. Previoiusly we were expected to us annual leave if a child was sick or make the time up.

Amanda....please read my whole post and not just one sentance. Thanks.
Hi meg! yes! someone really did say that :) no idea if it was Xenia, but it wouldn't surprise me :)
I was really ill last nov and had to have emergency surgery - Dhs company made him take his time off as holiday despite it clearly being a case for special leave.
They then still insisted he to on a works trip 3 days after my surgery - and with my youngest son having bad d and v at the same tome. Lovely.
Some employers are utter bastards and - as I said in my post Amanda - until employers change their attitude to working parents and the stresses they face it won't get any better.

I did read your whole post
And i stand by my response.
No need to be so patronising.

I'm not.
Just pointing out what I actually said as opposed to what you seem To want to infer from it...
Why should school hours change?
Not to benefit the children, that's for sure.
So...it's down to employers to make it easier for their workers and their families.

Wriggly...yes, exactly!
But it's easier to attack teachers and schools than your boss or the company you work for and depend upon to pay your mortgage :(
For every parent who can't wait to go back to work ft after having childrenI am sure there are many others who would much rather work flexibly, but are denied the opportunity to do so.
this isn't a sahm v wohm debate but it is interesting how the same tired old arguments come up each time this is discussed.
"It's easy if you are a sahp"
"Schools should be open 7 -7 to accommodate wohps"
Yawn.

Both schools and employers could have a role in this.
There is no reason that the sole responsibility should be on employers. Small businesses can be hard to run with impositions of flexibility.
Each organisation will have a different level of ability to offer support or flexibility to pants.
Some schools are ideally suited for children to spend a longer day there than to be moved from cm to school to cm.
Children whose parents work 9-5 or more have along day anyway. Nobody is suggesting they remian in lessons or sit at desks all evening.
Sometimes it makes sense for some children to be looked after within their school setting. Many primaries have added buildings onto their connected chidlrens centres to improve their wrap around care facilities.
Some empoyers have flexible working arrangements.
But overall, i think things need to improve.

And your "please read my whole post and not just one sentence. Thanks" was patronising.

Who is attacking teachers?
The most negative comments i have seen here are against wohps.

Which is exactly what I have been saying Amanda....?

(There have been criticism of teachers leaving at 3.15 and other comments about inset days etc)
Another issue that I don't think has been mentioned is when you have kids in 2 different LAs.
This is if course a massive problem for teachers too whose own children may have different holidays to them.
(I live in a a bit of an anomaly area :) our hols seem to be different from everyone else's and we still have a middle school system too)
No idea what the answer to that one is...

You all seem to forget that schools are employers as well. While you're all whingeing about schools not providing wraparound care, I'd quite like to see my family and go to bed sometimes.

Nobody is asking teachers to stay all night at school though.
We have to send our children to school. There is no realistic option to keep them in another setting that would better suit a childcare arrangement. Ther is no choice in the matter. So maybe, as an organisation, schools (which involve more than just teachers) might want to consider their postion in making life a bit less of an inflexible PiTA for parents who are working.
Why does that make you think that teachers shouldnt be allowed to go to bed or see their own families.

Somebody made reference to a teacher leaving around 315 in response to the common claim that teachers spend around 11 hours a day in classrooms plus several hours a night at home working.

I dont care what time the teachers leave. As long as theyre not being exploited. Good. Leave early when you can. Seems like a reasonable thing to do imo.

They will need to dramatically change teachers pay then. I'm not paid after 3.15. Life as a working parent is a PITA for all of us.

Why increase your pay unless you're missing the point that teachers are not being asked to provide childcare.

Also, if I'm providing some sort of educational experience from 8 till 6, when do I prepare lessons and mark books? That would be at home then. When I could be spending time with my family.

Many schools do not have the space for 7-7 childcare for every child. The wrap around care would have to be on a different site.

What is really needed is a purpose built building with staff who will receive children in the morning, give them breakfast and transport them to school, then collect them from school at 3.30, take them back to the childcare provision and, if necessary, feed them an evening meal.

There is no point expecting schools to cover all this, they are just not set up for it and many are already struggling for space.

DH and I have bee very lucky with our flexible employers, not just "letter of the law" flexibility but reasonableness!

Chile, I think people are picturing one group of staff for teaching and another for care, which is what my school currently does.

Of course, it might be an idea to improve wages overall so that more ppl can have the reasonable choice of having a parent at home.
So many possible solutions.

People might be interested in this 2011 article from The Guardian. It gives the UK a mid-table result in terms of average hours worked across the EU. I've glance at OECD figures for 2012 and 2013 and they look similar with the UK working fairly average hours by EU standards.

www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2011/dec/08/europe-working-hours