School is a very inconvenient form of 'childcare'

[naty1]

The hours just dont match for 9-5 working. Then the holidays are much longer, and everyone at work wants those same days.

I can see that nursery 8-6 is much easier for work, everyday except xmas week.
Or more jobs that fit school hours.
Compress the hours into fewer says of the week

It's not a crappy school.
It's a school housed in a Victorian building.
I would argue even schools built in the last 2 years they are not designed to provide wrap around care.

I used to work 2 weeks of the 6 week hols.If it was cut to 4 I'm not so sure 2 weeks to recharge would enough for many.I also used to work in my classroom after the kids had left so basically wrap around consists of a school hall and field(for those lucky enough to have one and the numbers are dwindling fast).

Haven't they all been sold off seagull!? :(

Sorry Bad.Yes I taught in a typical Victorian school building for many years.The windows were so high the kids couldn't see out,no field just a concrete yard,freezing in the winter and sweltering in the summer.

There needs to be a sensible and reasoned debate. It's all very well stating that school isn't childcare, but since the emancipation of women into the workplace, we need to identify workable alternatives. Extending the school day (not necessairly by extending formal lessons) would be the obvious thing to do.

When i was at school it was lovely. Huge playing fields and lots of outside space. Its criminal how that was sold off, and now needed more than ever with the increasing population etc.

Something needs to change - school hours/terms need to fit betterwith working parents or working hours need to be more flexible to fit with schools.

The situation in my workplace is unsustainable - lots of part time workers with school age children all fighting for 9-2.30 hours and annual leave in school holidays. Its not possible to staff the place if everyone gets what they want, but its not possible to come to work if there's no one to look after the dc.

School hours are built around the assumption that one parent works full time and the other is there for the children. This is not most people's reality.

I think employers need to be more flexible, but also schools hours need to change too. Personally I would like an end to fixed term times and let parents take their dc out of school for x number of days per year instead.

Most of the Primary schools in our area are old Victorian buildings, mainly on streets with Victorian semi's or terraces.
There are a couple with fields but most of the fields/land was sold off.
As a result there is very little wraparound care as the clubs tend to pick up children and walk them to nearby after school clubs.

I don't think the education should change for working parents to the detriment of sahps but agree that childcare/wraparound care should be easier for those that need it.

It's not convenient childcare which is why there is before/after school care. Teachers mostly do work from 8am to at least 5pm, then more work after dinner many nights.

I don't agree that SAHM's are 'not contributing' unless they provide others with free/cheap childcare....

Being a sahp is valuable.
To the sahps family.
The govt wants us to work so we pay tax.
If you dont have an income you dont pay income tax.

Besides, having one parent around at home is not the reality for many ppl.

Improvements in wrap around care and in flexible working for parents are needed imho. Otherwise it is either not poss to work, or children are being carted about, on the receiving end of arrangements that are often not to their benefit.

Contribute to what?

Many wp don't pay tax and many take more than they give back.

If we're going down the route of only those who contribute financially the most are worthy of having a say perhaps we should look at a families contribution as a whole.Think you might find plenty of families with a sahp contribute handsomely and more than many without.

Also last I heard my working dp is a taxpayer and a parent too.Does he not get a say?

I think given the nature of work these days, there needs to be more flexible childcare available that is linked (NOT necessarily provided) to the school the child attends. Most schools have some provision but more needs to be done, and I'm not suggesting this should be free of charge- but economies if scale could make it more affordable if it was provided at the school.
Very few jobs are 9-5 these days, most places I've worked are 9-5.30, even 9-6 (or equivalent 8.30-5 etc) and then there is commuting time in top of that.
It would make more sense for continuity, routine, socialising, etc if this was available with the children's classmates/friends- homework clubs, more after school activities, etc for the 'childcare' portions of the day. Also for this to be provided in relevant hours for times the school is closed.
The children have routine, the parents have reliable childcare and I think it would enable more people to work also.

I just don't understand why there can't be core hours that all children do and wraparound/extended care for those parents who want it. If you feel that 12 weeks a year is what your children need then fair enough. If you are happy with school day of 8 to 3:15 (or some other short variation thereof) then fair enough

I for one would rather my children were in structured activities for at least half of the summer holidays and that the option of wraparaound care was standard in the state system. Its ultimately about choice and the antiquated and rigid system we currently have at the moment does not readily cater for two parents who are in full-time work.

This is an almost impossible conundrum. No one really wants DCs in school from 8am to 6.30pm. Some (partial) solutions I can thing of are:

1. Both parents work part time so say Dad works Mon, Tues, Weds while Mum works Wed, Thurs and Friday so DCs only need a full day of childcare (or collected by GPs if local and available. This is a nice solution from child's point of view but means both partners will be earning less and still needs some childcare for cross over day.

2)Parents works shifts around each other. So Dad might work early shift while Mum drops DCs off at school and then goes for her shift. Dad's shift finishes at say 2.30pm in time to collect DCs from school. Mum gets home at say 6pm so still see the DCs for a bit before bed. This can work well but can also be pretty exhausting with the parents hardly seeing each other (Dad likely to be in bed early due to early start). Also won't work in certain sectors where a standard office day is required.

3. Really good before and after school care. Either on school site or nearby is most practical solution for most people who work rough office hours. No doubt that is a long day for the kids though even if they enjoy being with their pals at ASC. Also when do they fit in homework? I think all schools should ensure this is in place.

Holiday cover is another issue. I think most people manage by:

1. Asking grandparents to provide some cover. Best if they are local and in good health but also not working themselves.

2. Staggering holidays so Dad takes one week as leave Mum takes another. Or taking a few days each to cover each holiday. This one falls down because it makes less scope for parents having a family holiday together. Anyway most could don't get 13 weeks of leave between them.

3. Holidays clubs. A good solution but often only run in the summer and perhaps at Easter. Also pretty pricey for a full time place.

So you see it's a very tricky question...

That should be most couples don't get 13 weeks of leave.

I dont think that sahps dont contribute. Or arent valuable.
I was playing devils advocate because of the cynical nature of govt desire to have us all working. Even in crap, low paid jobs.

You need to lobby your local council to provide services. Here we have holiday clubs for infant/junior children that cost £3 for one session and £5 for the full day. I'm not sure what hours because we don't use it ourselves. The rest of the time the building doubles as a youth club which runs after school from 4pm - 10 pm obviously different age groups at different times. This costs £5 a year.
It doesn't cover everybody's situation but I'm told it helps quite a lot.
The workers are mostly volunteers and it can attract a wide range of children, but its there for those who want it.
All came about by locals lobbying, parents getting involved and a charity forming. Far fewer kids on the street after school, creating a nuisance and no more anti social behaviour.

MoreThan - That sounds great and a real community initiative.

Mimi..I was once told on a thread that as a sahm I was "no better than a prostitute"
:)
Made Dh chortle anyway.

Sometimes I think there's a national conspiracy to drive women out of the workplace and some of the posters on here seem to perpetuate it.

What about work being important because contributing financially to your own family is important? What about future financial security for your family? What about achieving something rewarding through hard work, be it education/career and setting an example?
Not to imply parenting isn't important or rewarding as well but to suggest nothing else has any value for women? Really?

Anyway after-school/holiday care by a parent isn't all baking cupcakes and arts & crafts. Be honest, tv features heavily because someone still has to do the cooking/cleaning/younger sibling childcare if you can't afford to outsource that.

Who is suggesting that?

Ghoul

It has changed our town, my dd goes to the youth club primary section.
I hear that the teens section has really changed the area and there seems to be far fewer kids hanging around.
There are quite a few pockets of huge deprivation and something had to be done.
It can get quite roudy at chucking out time but its only high spirits, rather than the real spirits they used to be drinking in the park.
When the community had raised a certain percentage, the council added some and then a private investor came in with a few million.
Any child in the borough is able to attend from aged 8 - 19 and 25 for dc with sn.
The holiday clubs are open to infants but not the youth club.
I really would advise people who are able try to organise something like this. Obviously I think the leader of the campaign must have to know quite a lot and maybe work in a public sector role that would help, but it can be done.

Million
I see, so if we aren't working then we aren't setting a good example

Oh and since when did you have to have a job to achieve something rewarding through hard work.

Surely if a woman has a partner and she is a sahm her dh is providing financially for the family. I don't see why its at all necessary to work.

As for your suggestions for the content of after school holiday care, I suggest you speak for yourself.

Million i agree.
It sounds like some people dont want to work, fine, but if the majority would like a solution to make working easier.

Even if it is just security in case you are divorced, widowed.

It affects womens job progress, earning potential.

I like the idea of class in the morning then sport afternoons.

As a couple of posters have said im sure private schools offer something, like 'prep'.

Its not childcare. But apart from cost, it sounds more hassle than nursery, especially all the holidays.

Yes working part time might work, but what with a hour travelling each way on public transport. So after drop off and pick up you are hardly there. And thats if they let you reduce hours. Certainly after mat leave they refused a 2 day week so cant see a few hour day being acceptable.

Seems to be that people think that if you aren't financially rewarded what you do has no value.
Very sad.