School is a very inconvenient form of 'childcare'

[naty1]

The hours just dont match for 9-5 working. Then the holidays are much longer, and everyone at work wants those same days.

I can see that nursery 8-6 is much easier for work, everyday except xmas week.
Or more jobs that fit school hours.
Compress the hours into fewer says of the week

OK - let me rephrase the op!

AIBU to keep my child in nursery rather than try and navigate staggered start times, half days on Friday and inset days.

I had a choice of nurseries I have NO choice in local school - I have an allocation and no private option.

I think the op raises a perfectly valid point, the argument to "suck it up" is not worthy of mumsnet - the imperative for most families is to keep a roof over their head.

So what I don't understand about school is why can't a child old go to childcare, with someone to look after him 8-6 and a teacher come in to take lessons? Why can't education be treated like another job where you take time off from, rather than have massive holidays? Spread the education over the day and year, teachers educate, child care people child care, chefs do lunches and snacks, all together in one place all year long with holidays at everyone's discretion. Multiple staff for groups of children, so holidays can be covered.

Why is it lessons, and then child care an after thought? Why not structure the year/ weeks/ days to more closely resemble work patterns?

greenthumbs

What would happen to the children whose parents didn't both work.
Do you mean the teacher coming in between 9am and 3pm and these children just not attending the childcare bits.

I appreciate that the primary purpose of school is not to provide childcare
But i think that given the General understanding that most parents need to work and most don't get to work school hours, schools ought to be supported in embracing their childcare potential tbh. We are all part of this society and there is a requirement for more and better childcare.

I think there should be more comprehensive provision of good quality wrap around care based in school buildings. It would help with workforce issues, continuity of care for children and traffic/ pollution issues. Atm children are often ferried about between school and childcare providers in an inefficient fashion. Maybe schools need to embrace a change in their purpose and potential. And the govt should be looking at ways to support this.
Also, employers should be incasing their efforts with flexible working.

Hopefully businesses can embrace flexible working hours and also parents to share the pick ups and drop offs. There is a real lack of family time in this country. We need shorter working days, not longer school days

Allow, not also

But why should it always stay roughly the same when times have changed so much. Why not make the hours more convenient? Why is 9-3 perfect for children?

Having to arrange care both before and after work is exhausting for the children. They are up earlier than they need to be to be taken on one journey to childcare provider and then a second journey to school.

I really want to hear more about the idea of year-long education where teachers take time off just like in a 'normal' job and hours match those of working parents more closely! I'm not sure whether it would actually work or be beneficial to the child, but I find it an interesting concept - in theory at least.

(Also loving Minty 's comments!)

Of course school is childcare, i don't get in trouble for abandoning my children when they go to school because it is recognised as a safe place for them to be. In parentis loco and all that.

Agree with OP, school seems to work on the assumption that every family has a SAHP whose only role is to act as a taxi service for their family. It's not just the inconvenient hours, it's the requests for parents to attend events in the middle of the morning or afternoon that last less than an hour. Because that's such a good use of my annual leave (I'd rather have a whole day at home with all the DC during the holidays than having to take a half day for an hour of an event at school for each child when I don't actually spend much time with them).

How about a morning (8 to 1) and afternoon (1 to 6) sessions at school (smaller class sizes perhaps?) with childcare provided for the other half of the day? Wrap around care is expensive precisely because the double school run is inconvenient for the childcare provider, they have to make sure they still meet their child:carer ratios when some staff are off site doing the school run. If they only have to do that once a day costs could drop. Also, you would get more childcare providers coming into the market if they knew there would be a regular demand. My kids went to a sports club during the summer holidays, I would love it (as would they!) if that was an option for them every day during term time. A whole afternoon of sport after school would be so good for so many kids.

Good point games

The "but school isn't childcare. Its too long a day for children" comments that get trotted out irritate me tbh. What does "too long a day" mean? Why cant there be more creative arrangements for staff to look after children in a school setting?
I believe that most parents work. How is it better for a child to be ferried to an alternative childcare place after and before school than to remain in the school buildings? They cant come home? We cant all have school hours jobs.

And the holidays are too long (having just experienced my first episode with preschool nursery aged ds) imho. Its quite disruptive for them.

The wrap around care I've seen through my work is often quite shit.
I wouldn't be happy leaving my dc there tbh. And its not available across the board. Its not a normal part of the school day.
It needs to be better and cheaper. Really as a part of a nurturing school day. UK childcare costs are ridiculous and do nothing to support the economy overall.

Yes to those pointing out single parents are expected to work when child goes to school. But it's not childcare? Yeah right

Childcare isn't much cheaper when your children are at school. As a LP I was able to claim 70% of nursery costs through tax credits. Just as well really because nursery fees were more than my salary.

Now the dc's are at school I only need one after school club a week and can claim 70% of that. But I can't claim for childcare during the school hols because tax credits can only be adjusted for childcare that lasts over 4 weeks. I didn't know this and the dc's summer club didn't quite stretch out over a month. As a result I had to pay for it all myself and I'm dirt broke. Gingerbread have just started campaigning to let LP's claim for holiday clubs.

And yes, it was so much easier to work when they were pre-schoolers.

Yes lucked

school seems to work on the assumption that every family has a SAHP whose only role is to act as a taxi service for their family.

That a 1000 times!!!
I mean our school form for school trips etc doesn't even have the option of 'my child will be picked up by a childminder/go to the afterschool club'.
No the only options are parent to come and collect or the child going back on their own.

I personally wouldn't want a day that is too long or too short (see the situation in France, Germany etc...) but I really love the Finnish way where they have a short school day but LOTS of after school activities organised at the school so that
1- children do have the opportunity to do a lot of extra stuff
and 2- parents can work.
Interestingly enough, it's also one of the best education system in the world. I mean we still need to remember that school isn't JUST childcare. It's also about education our children which it isn't doing that well at the mo

Thats why some people become sahm. Had eldest 22 years ago you only had three months paid maternity leave then. The figures didn't add up.

light blue touch paper and retire...

well the child is there and therefore they should 'care' for them!

wraparound care was wheeled out, i was one of the people who qualified to run the sessions, the successive government then basically cancelled out all the work being laid out (extended schools consortium etc) shame as it would have worked if given a little more time

I can't see any government paying for the extra hours though so how would it be funded?

Oh, and I've just put a flexible working request in at work.

And the dc's school is great and we have months of advance warning about insets days / shows / sports day etc, we've already got all the date for the next academic year. It does realise most parents work but at least we have enough time to book leave or juggle our hours for school events.

Good post captain

A change is needed.

School is for educating children, not a childcare provider.

But don't worry, according to IDS sahps "contribute nothing to society" so I imagine schools will be open 6-8 7 days a week soon to enable all the shiftless feckless layabout sahps to go to work.

OP no idea why you are getting a hard time. I think the point you are making is valid. the system is antiquated. The presumption is that one parent can work during school hours. The holidays are horrendously long.

We privately educate because the state system does not offer the same level of after care which is incredibly frustrating.

Hopefully things will change but I am not holding my breath.

School is childcare though, combined with state brainwashing in the main. Surely one of the most persuasive arguments for government to introduce state schools was to fit more working years into the proles' lives? And surely, it's a similar situation with free nursery places, which are being offered earlier and earlier and for longer hours - the government wants to remove barriers for parents to acquiesce to low paid work to the benefit of stock and shareholders are the boards and CEOs of large companies. And, the economy is so manipulated to remove any choice for most people who are financially forced to accept the school system whether they'd rather teach their children themselves or the children for whom school is really not in their best interests but their parents cannot see a way of affording a viable and more suitable alternative.

How many of histories' great people, thinkers, planners, writers, etc. were state educated. And, of those that were, how many managed to explore their genius in spite of rather than because of their state education?