School is a very inconvenient form of 'childcare'

[naty1]

The hours just dont match for 9-5 working. Then the holidays are much longer, and everyone at work wants those same days.

I can see that nursery 8-6 is much easier for work, everyday except xmas week.
Or more jobs that fit school hours.
Compress the hours into fewer says of the week

Its a tough one Badvoc because its so subjective.

Not really subjective, no.
There are countless carers who are "paid" a pittance by the govt (£60 per week) who have had to give up full time work to care for spouses, children, parents etc. often 24/7 365 days a year. And sometimes for years.
It's makes me so angry that they are thought of as feckless, or lazy, or any of the other buzz words this govt likes to use!
Ah...but of course, no one meant them did they?
Not the "deserving" poor!?
Jesus.
Dave et al will be bringing back the workhouses soon, and there are plenty on mn who would be happy I think :(

I have never really defined myself in £££ tbh.
I have worked, ft and pt since I was 14 and stopped when I had children at 30.
No idea if I will go back.
Started a degree with the OU but then dave et al upped the fees (by 400%) so that's that.
I do voluntary work. I care for my mother.
I was able to help care for my terminally ill aunt earlier this year. That meant more than any amount of ££ to me.
So it's all relative, not subjective :)

Of course its subjective. Because what is best for each individual or family is different.
Just to be clear in case there's any insinuation from you about my views, I do not judge a persons worth by their income. And i am capable of seeing the value in many acts and situations.
The point is that the govt is keen for us all to be grafting away in their corporate sweatshops so i think they should be finding ways of making that manageable and beneficial for our children.
And i think schools can be a part of that.

Well...I'm not going to feed this govts need for cheap labour :)
I am quite happy and so are my family.
Things may change (in fact if course they will) but for now it's ok.

Of course you're ok badvoc
You just said how it was beneficial for you to be able to care for your aunt.
Maybe for her too.
Good for you that you don't have to go out to work atm.
But many ppl do.

On the question of when homework gets done if children are at school or childcare 8-6, surely the after school club can provide a place and support to do homework? This would help children who maybe don't get as much support at home as others.

Of course before and after school clubs are needed ( teachers are parents too, we need such childcare, even if we can manage during the holidays!) but where?
I "occupy" my classroom from 7am to 4.30-5.00 pm every day, marking books, sorting resources, changing displays, writing up assessments, annotating planning and the 101 other things we have to do outwith the school day. As soon as I leave, the cleaner moves in ( or usually before, it's hard to concentrate with the hoover going!) None of this would be possible if the class were being used for before/after school clubs. Every other classroom is the same. The hall would be a possibility but mixing 4 year olds and 11 year olds together might not be in the best interests of either. We don't have any "spare rooms" we could use, we have hardly enough space as it is. The nearby playgroup could extend its hours but the staff there don't want to, nor are they geared up for older children-they currently have 2/3 year olds, new toilets would be need for year 6's! We are a small rural school, we have canvassed opinions from parents but don't have enough parents wanting childcare to make running a facility financially viable. The school can't subsidise it-we have little enough money for the children we already have. So I'm not sure what the solution might be.

spanieleyes - that'a a very valid point. The classrooms are in use. Our school hall is usually in use for school sport clubs (which only give 45 mins to an hour of care).

The situation at our school is that there is a breakfast club for 1 hour before school which is run by school, bills are paid to school and it is staffed by TA from the schools. That is great as hall wouldn't be use before school otherwise.

After school club is run by a local nursery but in the nearby church hall not at the actual nursery building. The children are collected and do the 5 min walk in a crocodile. They then play in the church hall and the small outside play area next to it. They are given a small tea at ASC too. It is very flexible in that you pay until 5.30 / 6 / 6.30pm as necessary. Also if your child has a school run club the assistants will go and collect them at 4.15pm or whatever which is an excellent service. But obviously you need to have a provider who wants to provide this service and enough parents who would make use of it. The 2 nearby schools are 3 form entry so quite a lot of children who might need care.

The only state school I know near us that has an excellent onsite wrap around care is a primary that is on a site that was intended as a secondary school. The main difference apart from a big playground is they have 2 halls. One is for dining and the other is for sports. The sports hall is used for sports clubs while the dining hall is set up for the after school club. But this is not a luxury that many schools have.

The idea of ending fixed terms and allowing holidays to be taken ad hoc sounds fantastic- it would stop 'end-of-termitis' and the hiking of holiday prices during school holidays, amongst other things.

However in practice, I can't see it working. It would mean that teachers would be unable to build on children's prior knowledge, as the children would all have missed at least part of the previous year's teaching. It would be almost impossible to account for the work that each child had missed, without resorting to personalised work schedules for each child, and the only way that could realistically be achieved would be to have work books/computer programs that the children worked through at their own pace.

Morethan - you centre sounds fantastic. Great that it caters for such a wide range of ages. Maybe we could all be pushing for something like that.

DD's teacher raced us to the school gate this evening. It was 3.15pm. Alright for some

windchime - maybe she, or he, was off away for the weekend or was in a rush to collect their own child, etc. Have to say that there are the odd days when we are out the door as soon as possible, rest of time it is a fair bit later.

Or on the way to a doctors appointment, collecting an ill child from the childminder.

Or have finished the hours that they are directed (paid) to work in school so was taking the rest of their work home to do in comfort over the evening / weekend windchime

There are days when I race out at 3.15, because I have a meeting 30 minutes later and 45 miles away!

I don't blame your DD's teacher, my faculty were all out the door by 3 this afternoon, and in Starbucks by half past. Perks of the job on a Friday afternoon after the first week back. I've racked up more than 50 hours in the building already this week: much as I love my job, that's enough for week 1!

Inset days, snow days, 48 hours sickness policy, sending child home when unwell etc. Without a doubt problematic for working parents.

But it's a work issue, and quite often a feminist issue. The world has changed and we can't all be either SAHPs or employees, we are both. The whole working culture needs to change.

It's frustrating when irritation at these problems is directed at the school. And that's when I want to say but it's school not bloody childcare.

Slightly off topic but a pet peeve of mine is fathers who put themselves as the first contact and then are aghast you call them to collect their vomity child. If having to take the afternoon off work to care for your child is beneath you (but not beneath your wife, who also works) then don't fucking list yourself as first contact...it's not a measure of who wears the trousers, twatbag.

Good post wrigleysbum

Just pointing out and clarify WrigleysBums post:

1. INSET days are taken from the teachers' holidays - not from teaching days.
2. 48 hours sickness policy is to try and ensure the health of the children in school, so bug aren't passed round the whole class.
3. Snow days - schools only close when schools cannot provide adequately staff to keep children safe. Many teachers live long drives from school, around here many live in rural locations and get blocked in when there is heavy snow.

Sickness policy is good one, surely!?
2 local schools actually had to close last year because of noro outbreaks...and one pg teacher was seriously ill.
Bloody infuriates me when wohps dash into the playground pulling a green child by the hand.
"Oh he was sick in the night, but he's fine now"
Yeah....
Inset days are not paid btw.
My sons school has never closed for snow.

Absolutely sickness policy is positive and necessary. No end of whining about it though.
Several children each week tell us they've vomited that morning/previous night and parent would rather label their child a liar than have it affect their work.

It's all nuts. This isn't a school issue, but a work issue.

I wouldn't be a teacher for all the bloody tea in china :)
It's the arrogance of some wohps I find hard to stomach.
I am now a sahm...so that must mean I have always been one? That I Have no valuable work or life experience because I dont do the old 9-5 anymore?
Ugh.
I agree that working parents struggle but school hours haven't changed since I was at primary - so let's say 35 years :) - and yet...so much consternation about holidays, and term times, and length of school days...
Surely they knew this when they had a child?
Surely it didn't come as a total shock?
You are right...it's not school that needs to change it's working patterns!
Hopefully as we get more and more technologically advanced it may become more possible to work more flexibly.
Something has to give..people should be able to have a child and continue working if they wish without the current huge costs and stresses.

Perfect childcare if you work a flexible 25 hours a week and work together with your partner to cover holidays.

Badvoc, was it Xenia who compared you to a prostitute, perchance?

surely they knew this when they had a child

What is the point of that comment?
When i had my pfb i knew my sleep would be broken, i knew i would not get to go out in the evenings (no childcare help)
Does that mean i am not allowed to express any negative feelings about these issues?
Should ppl who have to work not be allowed to have children?
Should we never challenge the status quo or look for childcare arrangements that might benefit our children and ourselves?

Of course the sickness policy is important btw.
But the point is that when you are working, and a parent of young children there are struggles. Employers could be part of the solution. Schools/ councils could be part of the solution too.