Indyref 9

[IrnBruTheNoo]

...

Here we go all over again...ding ding, round nine!

Hello all. Interesting to note all the companies now vocalising their concerns about, "Yes" and the implications for the economy, jobs and both Scotland and the rest of the UK.

Also, still waiting for a response from someone who feels the SNP's education policy, and handling of the Curriculum for Excellence, makes them suitable candidates to run the economy.

People with TTIP questions might find these brief articles in the Lancet interesting

www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(14)61408-2/fulltext?rss=yes#bib1

www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(14)61492-6/fulltext

Checking in, can someone put link on other thread and paste last posts as we've done before -makes it easier for folk to find us and follow conversation!

Hi Rose - on the CfE - I'm not a big fan of what I've seen either.

But I have to say that anyone could flip the question round and say - What makes you feel that the party of Michael Gove - with his wholesale disregard for the views of educational experts, who dismembered the secondary education sector in order to introduce 'Free Schools' and radically expand the number of academies, who chiefly took advice from Dominic Cummings (have you seen some of the batshit statements Cummings has made?) - are suitable candidates to run the economy?

Frankly, though the CfE may have many failings (and these can always be changed and refined in the future) I would rather have the CfE than an education policy determined by the likes of Michael Gove, who seemed to listen chiefly to the man who wrote this mental bullshit:

www.theguardian.com/politics/interactive/2013/oct/11/dominic-cummings-michael-gove-thoughts-education-pdf

Well, at least there's this to be said for all the discussions and reports: absolutely NOBODY cn claim they weren't told (or couldn't have found out) about the various issues

On a side note, Chocoluvva - could you stand for PM, please??? For sheer balance and fairness to all parties affected, your posts take a bit of beating

This vote isn't actually about choosing someone to run the economy, or education for that matter. It's about whether you want an independent Scotland or not. If there is a Yes vote, you can then choose which party to elect into government according to the policies you support. This referendum is not about the SNP.

Roseformeplease - I answered a number of threads ago saying I was very pleased so far with my experience of CfE. Ds is in S3, doing 8 subjects, all of which he will probably take to Nat 5. Specifically I am pleased with how he is being stretched in both English & Maths and don't recognise your description of how it is being implemented where you are.

Last year, ds studied Kidnapped and Of Mice & Men, the year before, Beowulf and A Midsummer's Night Dream. This year he's not been so communicative - to be fair, that's partly because he's been having supply teachers until this week as the English teacher who scares me with her intensity even though English was "my" subject who he has had since he was set in S1 has been off ill since the start of term.

The Chemistry that they are covering is on a par with what a friend's older sister had been studying for her Higher. His geography teacher says that the Nat 5 expects a depth of knowledge closer to the level of a Higher than the old Standard grade.

As parents, we have fed back our experience of CfE to date. There are some aspects that the school thinks it could be improved (particularly how those who are only doing Nat 4s are dealt with while the Nat 5 exams are going on).

NB: this is not a private school. This is a state school in Glasgow.

A friend is a head of English at a school outside of Glasgow. She tore a strip off another parent when we were watching our kids playing a sports game as that parent was promulgating misconceptions about CfE. She thinks that there is a lot of value in the principles of CfE - specifically for her subject of English.

So no, I'm not going to "blame" the Scottish Government for CfE.

Why did she tear a strip as a matter of interest?

May I say I find the disparity in the number of subjects allowed at National 5 and the different pathways schools are being encouraged to take through the "Senior Phase" unbelievable.

It is pupils in poorer areas who will find their qualifications don't compete with those from more rigorous schools like your own.

I think Chelsy will enjoy this link
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/northkorea/11089388/North-Korea-backs-Scottish-independence.html

ItsAll, you do Sterling work on all our behalfs!

Can't remember the detail - I think it was just that the parent made a general comment about "the CfE being crap" and not having anyway of backing up her statement as the things she was complaining about weren't actually part of CfE.

Ds' school is not in a privileged area: it has a very wide demographic, encompassing inner city districts of Glasgow, asylum seekers and Roma amongst its student population, as well as some "nicer" areas. Lots of foreign languages too. The head teacher has to deal with kids who've not eaten for two days at the same time as having pupils who are the children of millionaires (as someone on the Parent Council said).

But the point is it's not just about the brighter kids - it's about doing the best for all the pupils. Hence the concerns about keeping kids motivated who are doing Nat 4s and Nat 5s.

I do have a concern, like you, that there seems to be a range in how well the CfE is being implemented. It seems to be being implemented Ok where I am. However, I'd blame that disparity on the councils' education departments and not the Scottish Government. and I'm not normally an advocate of Glasgow City Council's Education Dept

This is also interesting. In the last few days we've had WM promise vast (vague) "more powers" after people have already postal voted (though, eh, that won't breach purdah because it's not "government policy" and merely akin to "manifesto promises" - best of both worlds, huh?) and now we have the Treasury leaking market-sensitive information to the BBC.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/11/alex-salmond-treasury-bbc-rbs-scottish-independence

I love that we are apparently supported by north Korea.

Firstly, education has always been devolved and has always been a very different beast this side of the border. A vote for "No" is not a vote to introduce free schools and GCSEs, but to maintain the Union - a very different thing.

My point is that the roll out of CFE has not been well managed and it should not inspire confidence. These people want to change everything and yet their management of the new exam system was woeful.

Some schools are doing a magnificent job. Most classrooms are exciting places to be and pupils are studying a wide range of texts. Wait for N5 and death by 6 Scottish poems, however. Or Higher - death by the same 6 Scottish poems again. Look at the way that schools are offering wildly different numbers of subjects. 6 in S4 in Highland, 7 in Fife, 8 in Glasgow - disadvantaging some pupils massively.

N4 is a disgrace and is a tick box exercise with no rigour. For the nice middle class children whose parents put in placement requests, buy in study guides and push them straight onto N5 - no change really apart from the exams have a different names (Nationals? How devious - we will name an exam system after our ambitious party. Imagine getting away with calling a new exam system Conservatives, or Labour?) and are much less rigorous.

I have a pupil who has arrived for Advanced Higher from another school never having ever studied any Shakespeare at all. They have been too busy doing, as I was this week, teaching film trailers. I went away to an inservice where we were asked to admire the work of S3 pupils who had been designing cereal packets.

Really! You couldn't make this stuff up.

"If we were no longer to operate in one state with one market and – broadly – one set of rules, our business model would inevitably become more complex. We would have to reflect our cost to operate here.

This is not an argument for or against independence, it is simply an honest recognition of the costs that change could bring. For us the customer is always right and this important decision is in their hands"

– ANDY CLARKE, PRESIDENT AND CEO OF ASDA

My point remains your's is a school where there are a body of parents who won't fall for the idea that it's ok to aim low.

"Firstly, education has always been devolved and has always been a very different beast this side of the border. A vote for "No" is not a vote to introduce free schools and GCSEs, but to maintain the Union - a very different thing."

You asked whether the SGs education policy "makes them suitable candidates to run the economy". It is equally fair to ask whether WMs education policy "makes them suitable candidates to run the economy."

I'm sorry - I know this is immature and wrong and lowers the tone, but 100 labour MPs came to Glasgow today on a "love train" and then this happened:
m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=720408611340179&id=100001131408819&_rdr

More reasons to vote No....

The International Monetary Fund has said economic markets could fall if Scotland votes to leave the UK.

Well of course markets will fall temporarily - they don't like uncertainty.

Change management is going to be crucial in the brave new world so beloved of the SNP. They managed the change of the curriculum badly, and will do the same.

I also feel that their pro-children, pro-parents stance is very much undermined by the way the curriculum was introduced.

And, whatever your stance on education in the south, it is undeniably far, far better than it was 20 years ago, due to policies from both this government and the last which put pupils first.

The finance industry is one of the few areas in Scotland where women can expect well paid jobs and interesting work. Considering the vote Yes is dominated by middle aged men, I can see why the Yes campaign pays more attention to "traditional" industries such as shipbuilding and mining.

But it begs the question - all of these women who are to be sent out to work in an independent Scotland to provide the taxes to pay for universal free childcare - what are they supposed to labour at?