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Indyref 9

999 replies

IrnBruTheNoo · 11/09/2014 14:00

...

OP posts:
StatisticallyChallenged · 11/09/2014 18:08

I know there's been loads of chat about the NHS - according to the Nuffield Trust while Scotland still spends more per head than England(think this is due to a mixture of population age/geography and others factors), spending per head has actually gone up faster in England than Scotland.

Kind of surprising given a lot of the rhetoric that's flying about re cuts to the NHS.

oddcommentator · 11/09/2014 18:15

Nice link. Salmond loses 4th largest taxpayer in UK.

Doh!

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 11/09/2014 18:17

Re NHS, not sure if this has already been posted?
www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(14)61408-2/fulltext

Roseformeplease · 11/09/2014 18:26

Love this article:

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/10/scotland-yes-campaign-snp-pollyannas

StatisticallyChallenged · 11/09/2014 18:27

this has a slightly different view

WildThong · 11/09/2014 18:28

I go out for 3 hours and thread 9 starts!
Marking place til I eat my dominos

grandtheftmanual · 11/09/2014 18:34

Roseforme, the Carol Craig article is absolutely spot on - trust a woman, eh! The complete article should be required reading for everyone - I particularly noted this :

If you are sceptical of my claim that Scotland is more likely to become a vehicle for the right's policy rather than the left's just look at some of the most ardent supporters of independence. Some of the big hitters of the SNP's independence campaign are among Scotland's most ruthless, money-oriented business people: Monaco domiciled tax exile Jim McColl is a key player and economic adviser; Brian Souter, of Stagecoach fame is well-known for his illiberal views and cutthroat business practices; and George Mathewson, former CEO of RBS, laid the foundation for Fred Goodwin's leadership of the bank.

Rupert Murdoch, an old pal of Alex Salmond's, is also a supporter of independence, sending out a series of positive tweets as Yes gained ground in the polls. One of them read: 'Scottish independence means huge black eye for whole political establishment…' and he evidently wasn't including himself. He also tweeted 'everything [is] up for grabs'. Could this mean Scotland's economy and media? An Scottish offshoot of Fox Media perhaps?

Only a couple of weeks ago the ultra right-wing think tank, the Adam Smith Institute, published a paper extolling the virtues of Alex Salmond's plan B – Sterlingisation. Google wealthynation.org and you'll see that right-wing thinkers and investors support independence and are already getting organised. They want Scotland to become a free market country, with more liberty and self-reliance, and much smaller government and public sector. Hong Kong is their model, not Scandinavia. Their founder, the journalist Michael Fry, published a piece in the Scotsman recently extolling the virtues of zero hours contracts.

If Scotland is financially challenged in the first years of independence, and this looks inevitable, then these are the people who will be influential in the new Scotland. It is a hard fact of life that it's right-wing money men rather than folk involved in dreaming and visioning at Yestival who are most likely to create the nation in their image.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 11/09/2014 18:37

this has a slightly different view

I read that link and thought "yay"! Then I checked date. Its months old, but Lancet piece is from yesterdaySad

WhatWouldFreddieDo · 11/09/2014 18:40

Roseforme that Guardian piece nails it.

StatisticallyChallenged · 11/09/2014 18:43

I'm not sure that much has happened to change it though - there has been a lot of shouting about the NHS and TTIP but has much actually moved?

Labour have also said they'll repeal the Health and Social Care Act, which is the act making this shaky re the NHS. It also only applies to England.

LittleBearPad · 11/09/2014 18:47

Amazon and Starbucks do use transfer pricing but so do the banks with any of their foreign operations. If the corporation tax rate in the UK is 22% and in Scotland 24% then they will shift their profits to the UK. Although if they keep jobs in Scotland that outweigh their economic activities in Scotland, their taxable profits won't be high anyway. Either way Scottish tax receipts won't be very high

Altinkum · 11/09/2014 18:49

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

grovel · 11/09/2014 18:54

And transfer pricing is a nightmare for even the most "honest" companies. My DH worked for the UK subsidiary of a US high tech giant. They spent a fortune on R&D in the US, manufactured for Europe in Italy and did sales and marketing in the UK (and across the Continent). The UK, US and Italian tax authorities all thought they were being short-changed.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 11/09/2014 18:58

Labour have also said they'll repeal the Health and Social Care Act, which is the act making this shaky re the NHS. It also only applies to England.

I suspect it may be somewhat technically difficult to repeal. I know the Health and Social care act only applies to England but TTIP doesn't.

StatisticallyChallenged · 11/09/2014 19:02

Spain

I know a few people have discussed the situation with other EU countries and their separatist regions - article above suggests Catalonia getting more fired up

Linked article also notes "According to a recent survey, conducted by Metroscopia, 43% of Catalans would support independence from Spain, 42% would support staying as part of Spain, with the rest "undecided".

However, when told that Catalonia would automatically remain outside of the EU, the percentage supporting independence fell to 38%, while 53% favoured remaining part of Spain."

Criseyde · 11/09/2014 19:04

Maya Goodfellow is....the staff writer at Labour List. If you're recommending we stick with analysis from Credit Suisse and Moodys, stats - I think I'd stick with analysis from the Lancet.

Anyway, the LL article argues that "member states do not need to provide access to their markets for foreign companies and even if they do give access they can discriminate between foreign companies and EU / domestic ones".

At present, they can do this by negotiating opt-outs for public health services from TTIP. The current government have not done so, and have no intention of doing so.

It is also true that "if a future UK government, or a public body to which power has been devolved, were to reverse decisions taken under a previous government, for example by discontinuing services provided by a foreign operator, it would be entirely at liberty to do so. However, it would have to respect applicable UK law". But what this article doesn't mention is that TTIP builds in ISDS (which allow companies to sue governments for compensation if their market is threatened in anyway). So, yes, a future Labour government could discontinue these services - but may have to do so at great cost to the public purse by providing financial compensation to the operating company.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 11/09/2014 19:04

Why voters are moving from No to Yes
www.ipsos-mori.com/researchpublications/researcharchive/3444/Meet-the-switchers.aspx

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 11/09/2014 19:07

][http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2014/sep/11/scottish-independence-voting-intention-across-scotland-mapped?CMP=twt_gu]]

Mao of voting intentions

StatisticallyChallenged · 11/09/2014 19:07

have a read of this re TTIP

StatisticallyChallenged · 11/09/2014 19:11

Yup, and I've just linked to other info direct from the European Commission whilst you were critiquing. I was having trouble finding things and these threads moves fast.However, I linked it as it is Labour who are fairly loudly opposing the Tory view on NHS.

Criseyde · 11/09/2014 19:15

Yes, if they wish governments do have the capacity to treat domestic health services differently. The current UK government has not chosen to do so!

A future government could repeal that decision, and protect existing NHS services but once a company is already operating it must be treated in exactly the same way as an EU company from then on. Ending private provision may mean having to compensate any private company already operating. It's very clear.

StatisticallyChallenged · 11/09/2014 19:22

Yes, but the Scottish NHS is devolved. Because of that, and the fact it doesn't come under the English bill, I think from reading that it would be more likely to come under the monopoly critera as a public monopoly which it states can operate at regional level.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 11/09/2014 19:26

have a read of this re TTIP

That's a great link StatisticallyThanks

The problem is, it seems to require our government to specifically exempt the NHS?