Question for Scots who left...

[dalziel1]

How do you feel about the possibility that Scotland may soon vote for independence?

Personally, I am saddened by the things I am hearing from my family about the aggressive divisions forming between neighbours - calling each other Quisling, traitor etc. Whatever happens this referendum will leave deep divisions in Scotland.

When I call home and compare the reporting in England of the issues with that in Scotland, its like 2 completely different stories. e.g. My mum hadn't heard that 130 international company leaders had said the case was not made, but she'd heard that 200 small business owners had said it was.

The impression I am getting is that there is such an pro-independence juggernaut in Scotland, with "I'm saying yes" posters all over the place, and St Andrew's cross flags flying and yes rallies, that even those who don't want independence are beginning to say its an inevitability (and the English never treated them fairly, etc., etc).

Its as if the widely held view is that people want independence and its only a case if they can afford it. Is that what everyone else is hearing too?

I don't get a vote but may I just say that I don't want to be a foreigner in the UK?? (And I have a husband and children here in England so I can't just move back to Scotland even if I wanted to).

Marking my place

Scottish living in London and I'll be very proud of them it they vote yes. The near future for the UK looks pretty bleak to me. The bile and hate at anyone on benefits, disabled people, immigrants etc. Westminster and the current govt are a disgrace and if Labour get in they won't be much better. That Westminster are so desperate to keep Scotland makes me think Scotland would be better off out of it. They are not trying to keep Scotland for Scotland's sake, but their own and their cronies.

The scare tactics from better together have really irked me. They're looking pretty desperate now with their saltire, devo max promises and emergency visits.

I've not heard anything from Scottish relatives about aggressive behaviour from either camp.

I suspect it will be a close call but no. It's scary to vote for change.

Also no anti-Scottish sentiment amongst those I know. Most comments I get are along the lines of 'don't leave! We'll be stuck with the Tories forever if you do' or 'I wish we could get some devolution for the North of England' etc. Mostly supportive of a yes vote.

Of course my friends tend to have fairly similar political views to my own and I realise that plenty of people actually like the Tories.

dalziel I've been far too polite fro the last 25 years of living in Scotland!

Don't knows: what exactly don't they know?

Is it that they like the idea of independence but they don't know whether its going to be expensive or not? I'm guessing many people like that will vote yes, because they won't get any more info to help them decide between now and the 18th.

Or is it just what you say when a researcher asks how you intend to vote but you want to keep it between yourself and the ballot box? Or even you don't intend to vote at all?

Those perhaps and I'd have thought they feel ambivalent. Which is fair enough. It's a big decision and they could easily have a list of pros and cons that don't make it entirely clear.

Maybe they want to see what firm devo max offers will come up.

A quiet no voter today pointed out that any doubts whatsoever should mean you vote no.

However the response I have heard to that type of comment in real life, on TV and on here is that "that is so negative" and we need to make positive change for the future..There is a palpable disapproval in the air of cautious prudence that has me worried.

I thought the recent Carol Craig piece in the Scottish Review gave an insight into how the SNP had developed its positive spin.

Maybe Alec Salmond can send out a wee man in a rowing boat to shout "Its our oil. Go away!". That should do it! lol

I must admit defence is one of the things I would be worried about if I lived in Scotland.
I read in the Sunday Times that oil revenue peaked in 1990s and has been in slow decline since then. Presumably Salmond has done his sums...

I am a Scot living outside the UK and I feel sad about the prospect of Scotland leaving the UK.

In my youth I voted SNP and probably would have voted yes in the past for emotional reasons. However I have lived through a revolution (which I supported, I'm not a naysayer) in the country I am based in now and have seen what lack of a clear vision for the future and market jumpiness can do, and also the effects of an unstable currency. I also view UK public services in a different light after seeing what can happen once they are neglected or the funding for them isn't available.

My best friend here, who is also Scottish, would have voted yes though, so it really depends.

about the oil. This is a quote from the yes campaign:
"Remember there are up 24 billion barrels of oil still to be extracted from the North Sea with a wholesale value of up to £1.5 trillion. That’s more than ten times our likely share of national debt."

That's a bit disingenuous because:-

A. However much oil is down there, its how much its worth getting out that counts. For whatever reason (probably political risk), there is very little exploration being done in the north sea right now - and you need to find the oil first before you can start drilling it!

B. there are costs involved in getting it out of the ground. Its not all profit.

C. Any drilled oil will not belong to the Scottish govt anyway. They will only get the taxes from the companies who own the oil and the companies that service the oil companies.

D. The price of oil changes all the time.

Talking to an oil industry person recently who pointed out that to encourage extraction as it gets more difficult, the government has to offer bigger tax breaks.

If they want to go they will vote for it. Could go either way. We will all manage whichever way it goes.
However once the dust settles I want us to ensure more fairness for England.We all pay the same tax (well not the Welsh don't earn much I suppose) and yet we in England pay prescription charges and some other parts of the UK do not. That type of regional difference is not on. We have to have fairness throughout whatever the Kingdom might be.

You are right the fairness should be spread out. Like when I moved down south as the unemployment was horrendous in Scotland - 100 applicants per job or whatever it was. Moved south and was offered two jobs in my first day of job hunting. The folk in my new town had no idea how tough other parts of the Union were having it - not a clue!

daily record poll tonight puts the current status at 47/ 53 in favour of the noes. Three weeks ago i would have thought that far too close, but now I am relieved!

Bandar thanks for drawing attention to that carol craig article, easily the best I have read in the whole campaign. Anyone with a vote, it's worth a read.

It explains the odd mood.

*Trident, to some extent.

I don't think it's a big enough chip to get what he wants though. The UK will not be obliged to remove it until it is safe for them to do so.*

If there's a Yes vote the UK will not be able to move it quickly. We were discussing this tonight and thought wouldn't it be ironic if it were moved to say the Solway Firth? All this pain for it to be located a few metres over the border.

I thought this quote from the Carol Craig article ran particularly true:

"What's interesting is that the notion that 'Scotland is too wee, too poor and too stupid' to become independent has mainly featured in this campaign via the Yes side. It's the likes of Nicola Sturgeon who frequently set this idea up as a straw man to be knocked down."

When I lived in Scotland I was very pro-devolution but not pro-independence. I voted for devolution, was thrilled when it happened. Come the independence vote I'd already been living down south for quite a few years. I felt sad about it and hoped it would be a no. NOW I think that was a terrible mistake. I think if I was living in Scotland I'd be furious at being shackled to this absolute shitshow. English husband is desperate for us to move to Scotland; I always said I'd never return but if there was a new independence vote where yes won AND a re-entry into the EU I'd go for it.

I think all my friends and family are pro-indy; there might be a few who aren't. For context: family very old-school Glaswegian shipyard workers; friends mostly working in cultural industries.

ZOMBIE THREAD!!! I genuinely thought i'd missed something and Indy 2 had been announced haha!