Question for Scots who left...

[dalziel1]

How do you feel about the possibility that Scotland may soon vote for independence?

Personally, I am saddened by the things I am hearing from my family about the aggressive divisions forming between neighbours - calling each other Quisling, traitor etc. Whatever happens this referendum will leave deep divisions in Scotland.

When I call home and compare the reporting in England of the issues with that in Scotland, its like 2 completely different stories. e.g. My mum hadn't heard that 130 international company leaders had said the case was not made, but she'd heard that 200 small business owners had said it was.

The impression I am getting is that there is such an pro-independence juggernaut in Scotland, with "I'm saying yes" posters all over the place, and St Andrew's cross flags flying and yes rallies, that even those who don't want independence are beginning to say its an inevitability (and the English never treated them fairly, etc., etc).

Its as if the widely held view is that people want independence and its only a case if they can afford it. Is that what everyone else is hearing too?

I don't get a vote but may I just say that I don't want to be a foreigner in the UK?? (And I have a husband and children here in England so I can't just move back to Scotland even if I wanted to).

Shakes I may be a No campaigner, but I'm not going to scaremonger (excessively)

I think your husband's public sector pension will be fine. Existing schemes are likely to make provision for pension liabilities for existing members. I'm not sure what will happen about currency if we end up using a separate one - I imagine at some point there will be either a preserved pension pot and then a new one in the new currency, or a currency exchange agreement. If he still has quite a long time to go in employment, it is possible they will preserve the benefits in the existing scheme and open a new one. Scenario would likely vary according to whether he has a defined benefit scheme linked to final salary or one with fixed contributions. Also what the geographical and age split of the members in your husband's scheme are - I'm aware there are quite a range of different public sector pension schemes.

For future Scottish pensions, I think a lot will depend on what happens with the economy, financial regulators and the financial services industry. If we use the pound without a currency union or central bank, then I doubt pension schemes will be able to get the investment growth they need to meet liabilities.

Here's a question... as a Scot, resident in England, would you vote for rUK to join in a currency union with Scotland?

I love my home country but I would not because it would be such a bad thing for England, who would end up being like Germany is to Greece (particularly if even half the SNP utopian things get purchased)

dalziel1 I'll have to be quick as I'm supposed to be cooking.

Representation across the UK - Scottish people not happy with the split of parties in Westminster. But if you analyse voting patterns that can apply to lots of areas across the UK. We (and Wales and Northern Ireland) have parliaments/assemblies, England doesn't. My sister lives in the North of England - a lot of the same problems as some areas of Scotland, but no additional representation.

How funding is split across the UK - some areas contribute more, some areas need more. Sometimes it varies year to year. Is the current settlement fair? It seems to be unpopular both here and south of the border.

Is our current government/social settlement fair? What balance do we have between trying to balance the economic books, trying to encourage business, and providing services for those who need them? What can we do to work towards the 'fairer society' being asked for? How do we define a 'fairer society' when opinions differ on what it is.

Personally I'd want to explore a move to a more federal UK (if the majority want it). I'd want to reform the House of Lords, but keep a second chamber (Scotland doesn't have a second chamber).

England will not end up being like Germany is to greece because there will be no currency union. The scots will have bail out their own banks and have no say in the interest levels set.

It wll be interesting having the Royal Bank of Scotland relocate to England.

sorry have to rush now and my head is mince with three different conversations my children are trying to have with me - I have more thoughts but can't focus just now

Hi ReallyTired, you are right: there is no currency union. I was asking what you would vote if you were asked as an rUK citizen to enter into one? I'd vote no because of the disaster that was the Euro.

The yes campaign seem convinced that rUK can be coerced into one, if "the Scottish people have voted for it". I think that's what Alex Salmond said in that last debate with Alistair Darling.

My belief is that rUK would wholeheartedly refuse, but I could be wrong again. Six months ago, I never thought the yes campaign had any meaningful chance of winning at all - and obviously i got that wrong!

In my experience, Scotland never really came to terms with the Thatcher years. No one was voting for the Tories in Scotland in the 80s but we had three terms of a Thatcher govt. I have to say, as a Scot myself, we are good at keeping grudges!

I think that's where all the "we are not fairly represented at Westminster" stuff comes from. What Scots seem to forget is that they don't all think as one either.

OOAML

If we get a 'No' vote next week (arrrgh it's so soon!) then please may I join you in campaigning for federalism and a reformed second house? They sound good!

Absolutely NCforAye but can I have the weekend off first? Bit tired......

Thanks OOAOML

Add message | Report | Message poster dalziel1 Mon 08-Sep-14 15:28:44
Bad for both economies!

Who will pay my mum's pension? Which currency will it be paid in?

Who will regulate the bank where she keeps her money? Will there be a guarantee scheme in case the bank fails?

Will Spain and Belgium ever allow Scotland to join the EU. Would they want to join it? What will the Scottish farmers do when the production subsidies suddenly stop?

Where exactly does the rest of the UK plan to store those nuclear submarines?

Also... about the oil and how its going to keep Scotland going for decades to come... it was predicted to run out about now. It hasn't, but its nowhere near as productive as it was in the late 70s/ early 80s which is why many of the big operators have pulled out.

it would be paid in euros any new member state will have to make moves to take on the euro in order to join the EU

Add message | Report | Message poster dalziel1 Mon 08-Sep-14 17:53:48
In my experience, Scotland never really came to terms with the Thatcher years. No one was voting for the Tories in Scotland in the 80s but we had three terms of a Thatcher govt. I have to say, as a Scot myself, we are good at keeping grudges!
so are the English and that's why it's likey you will have the pound over our dead bodies

I think that's where all the "we are not fairly represented at Westminster" stuff comes from. What Scots seem to forget is that they don't all think as one either.

I think all the "splitting up families" stuff is a tad melodramatic - nobody's proposing the Berlin Wall, FFS.

Thefishewife - aren't you assuming that the EU will have you? What about Belgium and Spain's objections?

Also re GBP, that will belong to the remaining state i.e. rUK. But its only a name.. what really matters is the credit rating and the BoE, both of which will stay with rUK.

I am heartbroken. DH's job will go to London. We're having twins in December and our DD won't be 2 yet. I don't know how I will cope in London. I so badly want to stay here :(

poster dalziel1 I am not scottish I think they might but it can take up to 10 years to get into the ex and their is currently a que of about 7 counties and the EU are not know for their speed

Add message | Report | Message poster SantanaLopez
so sorry to here this

But London is a nice place lived in London all my life and I love it I have a baby and a teen if that helps and never had any issues

Santana You will probably cope like a lot of us have had to who have moved around for work. It's really quite common these days.

I'm living in Scotland. I am really nervous as I'm anticipating a yes result. I don't want independence.

Thank you fishewife. I started a thread the other day and everyone was so positive. But it's just not home yet.

Ohbugger thanks for that irvine welsh link. That was so interesting reading. He put his views across brilliantly x

Amongst my friends and family, it's a pretty even split between yes and no (at least if fb is anything to go by!).

On the one hand, I'm glad that it seems to have boosted interest in politics and people are talking about what they want from the parliament more than ever before.

On the other, I'm worried for an independent Scotland. There is lots of talk about a more socially fair society - free health and social care, free university education; but I just can't see how it's all going to be paid for.

Emotionally, the patriot in me is a big yes, but the practicallities of a yes vote make me worry for the country. Oil and tourism can't pay for everything and I can't see people being happy to pay higher taxes to pay for all that's promised. Plus despite what the yes camp say, I can't see for a minute that Westminster would agree to a currency union, and even if they did, it would be a country who's currency value was decided by another nation.

My family still live in Scotland. We are not Scottish natives by birth but my mum has lived there 30 years +. In the last few months, she has been the victim of xenophobic and unpleasant abuse. Not just for wanting "no", which she quietly does, but simply for not being Scottish enough. That really worries me. She says where I grew up is decorated in yes flags and stickers but she wouldn't put up a "no" one as she's been told her windows would be smashed in as a traitor.

My concern is that this can't be put away now it's out in the open. This has let nationalism rear its ugly head in a sanctioned way and that's a dangerous move.

For myself I feel sad. I completely understand why Scots feel they want to control their own affairs. I understand the frustrations with the political system that means parties can be elected in England with no Scottish support. But I still think the union is stronger.

I work with many businesses and what I am hearing and seeing isn't scaremongering. Big businesses are actively moving funds and assets out of Scotland - read Financial Times, read Business Insider, go online and listen to the business leaders, not the politicians. It is happening because they don't want their assets in an "independent" Scotland which can't give reassurance on currency, EU membership and member ship of various Uk-wide business support agencies which assist with research and development, international trade etc. According to Salmond Scotland will either have a pound still controlled by a foreign bank, or will start off in debt having reneged on obligations. Listen to the businesses, they are moving already and taking their jobs and money with them.

Alec Salmond is probably the best politician in the UK currently - such a waste that he is SNP

If Scotland leaves rUK will collapse - probably a disaster for the world in general with the threats from Russia and the middle East together with the ongoing economic weakness in Europe.

Terrifying prospect for anyone in rUK who isn't the private school educated elite

At least Scotland leaving will probably put to bed whether to renew Trident - rUK won't be able to afford it

SantanaLopez - you'll be fine, honestly! When my DC were born, I was living in London and I thought of moving back up to Edinburgh but DH had other ideas, so we stayed! It was daunting at first, but you soon get used to it, and later, you may even start to appreciate life in the south. (Its warmer for a start!)

You may well not live in London anyway. Many, many families live in a town in the home counties and take the train up to London each day.

The days are longer than they were in Scotland, but IME the salaries are higher and the job security is better.