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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Question for Scots who left...

122 replies

dalziel1 · 08/09/2014 15:03

How do you feel about the possibility that Scotland may soon vote for independence?

Personally, I am saddened by the things I am hearing from my family about the aggressive divisions forming between neighbours - calling each other Quisling, traitor etc. Whatever happens this referendum will leave deep divisions in Scotland.

When I call home and compare the reporting in England of the issues with that in Scotland, its like 2 completely different stories. e.g. My mum hadn't heard that 130 international company leaders had said the case was not made, but she'd heard that 200 small business owners had said it was.

The impression I am getting is that there is such an pro-independence juggernaut in Scotland, with "I'm saying yes" posters all over the place, and St Andrew's cross flags flying and yes rallies, that even those who don't want independence are beginning to say its an inevitability (and the English never treated them fairly, etc., etc).

Its as if the widely held view is that people want independence and its only a case if they can afford it. Is that what everyone else is hearing too?

I don't get a vote but may I just say that I don't want to be a foreigner in the UK?? (And I have a husband and children here in England so I can't just move back to Scotland even if I wanted to).

OP posts:
AmberLav · 09/09/2014 13:22

Oh and Santana - I love raising my family here in London! I live on a wonderful street where I know all my neighbours names (just had our street party at the weekend), we have great parks all around us, wonderful friends from all nationalities at nursery etc.

Also, in London, rather than free prescriptions and university places, the government are working hard on improving schools (something which I know is lower down the SNP's priorities) so most London schools are now Good or Outstanding.

blibblibs · 09/09/2014 14:44

I have a quick question if you don't mind.

I'm Scottish, but living in England for 4 years now, due to too many redundancies. I still bank with The Royal Bank of Scotland as we have one in the local town. I don't have lots of money but we do have a small savings account and our current accounts with them, should I be moving my money elsewhere???

The closer the vote get, the more I start to worry.

oddcommentator · 09/09/2014 14:57

can some of you not count? sigh The GDP of Scotland is circa 242bn GBP. The UK is 2.45trillion. Take away Scotland you will have 2.21trillion.

The rUK will not collapse and will not suffer in the medium term or beyond. In fact the decrease in the value of sterling will help exporters for a bit.

so if you think England needs Scotland - it doesnt. It really really really doesnt. It doesnt need Scotland - but it wants to remain in the union.

Scotland is going to need a currency union, need a lender of last resort and a whole stack of other things (about 200 public bodies). It will need England more than the other way round. As for trident. There is an off the table deal to service and maintain out of Norfolk Virginia.

Original poster
dalziel1 · 09/09/2014 15:00

If Scotland votes Yes in 9 days time, then there won't be independence the next day. There's a long period of "negotiation" to come - 2 or 3 years I think. So plenty of time to see which way the wind is blowing wrt to needing to move bank accounts.

OP posts:
BardarbungaBardarbing · 09/09/2014 15:09

Timetable for independence : March 2016.

Bambambini · 09/09/2014 15:22

Just hope they make the correct decision for them. Think it's a shame if causing division and think if the result is a very narrow majority (especially Yes) then it will be tough to accept.

Original poster
dalziel1 · 09/09/2014 18:55

Me too, Bambambini.

The vote is showing as 50/50, but one side has to win. If the yes side win, how will the no voters react? With equanimity? I doubt they'll be happy carrying on with their lives waiting for the fool's paradise to implode.

If the no side win, how will the yes voters respond? Losing this paradise dream thanks to their "fearty" neighbours won't go down well.

OP posts:
dementedma · 09/09/2014 20:28

Exactly what dalziel said. Whatever the result, half of the country will be disengaged, furious and demanding answers. How is that going to be managed?

Bambambini · 09/09/2014 20:29

I just find it hard to see that they can implement such a huge change with say a 52/48 yes vote. I would have thought it would have to be a higher majority of perhaps at least 65% or such to push through such change. I think a 54% No vote would be easier to accept than a 54% Yes vote. Will be interested to see how many turn out to vote. Shame we can't have a trial run to see how independence would pan out!

I know some of my friends are very worried about it.

JohnCusacksWife · 09/09/2014 20:36

I have to admit I'm not too keen on Alex Salmond - but that's because I've met him several times.

Love it! That's made my night!

WhatWouldFreddieDo · 09/09/2014 21:02

I'm a No voter and have been in and out of the IndyRef threads when I have the time. One thing that's struck me today is if there's a Yes vote, what bargaining chips does AS then hold for the negotiations?

It seems to me he holds none. He'll have already pressed the nuclear button of independence, he needs the oil, and when he comes to sit down with London and ask what Scotland's going to get ... well, couldn't Westminster simply say, 'F* off, you've got what you want, why the hell should we give you anything else?'

SantanaLopez · 09/09/2014 21:05

what bargaining chips does AS then hold for the negotiations?

Trident, to some extent.

I don't think it's a big enough chip to get what he wants though. The UK will not be obliged to remove it until it is safe for them to do so.

Bambambini · 09/09/2014 21:09

I think this has stirred up a lot of anti Scottish feeling in England. I do worry that a No vote will put Scotland in the hands of a pissed off WM government who will not be feeling favourable towards Scotland and they will have long memories.

Maybe after all this Scotland might be better of going it alone.

WhatWouldFreddieDo · 09/09/2014 21:12

Bambam No, it absolutely wouldn't be better off, even after all of this.

It's interesting comparing with Quebec in 1995. AFter the narrowest of votes, the No's won, and then it seems that everyone was just exhausted and thought, please can we just now get on wtih our lives.

WhatWouldFreddieDo · 09/09/2014 21:13

But then they got a serious amount of love-bombing - thousands of Canadians travelled into Quebec for mass rallies asking them to stay.

Very sadly I can't see the rUK doing that - and I'm not sure it would work tbh.

Bambambini · 09/09/2014 21:16

Well, we don't know how successful Scotland could be unless they give it a go. I'm not saying I would vote Yes if I had the vote but you can't say for sure it would be a disaster. I think in the end more folk will go with the cautious Vote and vote No.

Original poster
dalziel1 · 09/09/2014 21:33

Maybe its only got to 50/50 because the no voters are scared to say what they think, even to the pollsters? (Faint hope, but I am clinging to it!)

OP posts:
Iggi999 · 09/09/2014 21:44

I don't recognise the situation you describe in your OP. Haven't had so much as a single argument with anyone about it all (though dh does shout at the telly sometimes) and there are only a smattering of posters (yes and no; mostly yes) in windows near where I live. That's not to say no one has faced any aggro over their voting decision, but if you're imagining we are at each other's throats all day it's just not so.

Original poster
dalziel1 · 09/09/2014 21:58

Just wondering where you live Iggi999? Not a specific location but some colour would be interesting. Everyone I know lives in either Aberdeen, Edinburgh or outside Glasgow.

OP posts:
Iggi999 · 09/09/2014 22:01

E.

Iggi999 · 09/09/2014 22:02

...maybe I just live around very well-mannered people, I don't know!

BMW6 · 09/09/2014 22:04

*I think this has stirred up a lot of anti Scottish feeling in England. I do worry that a No vote will put Scotland in the hands of a pissed off WM government who will not be feeling favourable towards Scotland and they will have long memories.

Maybe after all this Scotland might be better of going it alone.*

I am English. I agree. Am fed up to the back teeth of it. Off you go, but no way should you be allowed access to the joint back account.

Let the Court decide.

(sorry, am rather grumpy tonight)

Original poster
dalziel1 · 09/09/2014 22:07

I understand your feeligns BMW6. I would feel the same in your position.

I am surprised the English have put up with it for so long. TBH I assumed they didn't know what was being said about them.

OP posts:
Momagain1 · 09/09/2014 22:19

mrsTerry "My family is mostly Scottish with some still there and some away. What I want to know is how will it work with leaving? Lots of Scottish young people leave, and always have, to find work, travel and live. If Scotland isn't part of the UK or Europe, won't this affect the Scottish diaspora?"

Scotland will still be part of the Commonwealth, with all the rights to come and go as anyone from Australia etc.

Bambambini · 09/09/2014 23:24

Just watching Newsnight and someone said how Scotland has been infantilised in their relationship with England which I think is true. Also patronised but Scotland does have a tendency to blame many of it's woes on England and WM and play the surly teenager at times.

Guess Independence would do away with all this - no more patronising and no more blaming England. Either way - just don't want Scotland to suffer.