To think that teachers need more training for coping with violent/ SEN children

[ReallyTired]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-29111528

Clearly a distress child should not have been locked in a room. However I can see how it could have happened. I feel that better training could have helped these teachers deal with a diffciult situation better.

For example training teachers in how to restrain a child safely, descalation techniques and improving communication skills would help. A school always has the option of calling the police for an out of control child.

[It is NOT an excuse that there are only a certain number of hours of me available every day. But it is heartbreaking that sometimes, the physical needs of food and sleep and paying attention to other things - or other children - every now and again come before knowing just that little bit more about one of the children I teach, or mean that I fail t do exactly the right thing at exactly the right moment]

Hurr1cane, I did and do manage 'fine'. But I do not necessarily manage as perfectly as a parent of an SEN child might want me to for every minute of every day, looking solely at their child's experience. I absolutely realise that they have a right for me to do the right thing, all he time and immediately. But I acknowledge that sometimes I don't quite manage it.

Your class, by the way, sounds very like my old one!

hurr1cane

One of ds lovely friends slapped a child who had punched DS in the stomach (apparently he'd been picking on him all day, he then punched him hard, I was walking behind them and couldn't get over the road because of traffic).

Friend said 'maybe that will teach you to keep your hands off LomnyJr' and stalked off.

Made for a very awkward conversation: DF, we do not hit, come and find an adult etc, while inwardly thinking 'DF you are the best child ever and I luffs you very much.' (Of course I didn't say any of that out loud).

My child was assaulted by a teacher. He was practically catatonic and self harming when I finally removed him. He's been home educated for three years now and is unrecognisable from the child who was at school. I am angry though that he is not in receipt of his legal right to an education in this country and I do believe that better training and a change in the mentality that insists that these children must fit in with the rest of the class of 29.

For mr son what would have made all the difference:-

A safe space that he could retreat to when he became stressed. A room with equipment designed meet his sensory needs.

NOT being sat next to a boiling hot radiator that was causing him sensory overload hourly (seemingly the very large classroom could not be adjusted to move it to a cooler area)

The ability to remove himself when it all became too much rather than being strenuously "encouraged" to remain in a situation that he wasn't coping with.

Not insisting that he use a pen for every piece of work when he could be on a lap top, which I offered to provide. Apparently that "wasn't fair" on the rest of the children. However the rest of the children did not have autism, dyspraxia AND significant hypermobility.

The things I listed above, I have heard are available in other schools but for some reason our school would not allow them.

There needs to consistency thoroughly. Autism and other SN vary from child to child so so should their therapies and adjustments.

There's needs to be a massive amount of funding allocated to allow every school to have a unit or area with fully trained staff to work with rack child as and when needed. It's not about a teacher having to teach 29 other kids too, it shouldn't all be on the teacher, the load should be shared amongst multiple staff.

This IS what would work but I don't think we will ever see it.

I suppose what I am saying is that there are, of course, some teachers who 'choose' not to do the right thing / make accommodation for a child or children with SEN.

There are many more who do, realistically, the best they can on the vast majority of occasions, but sometimes they will fall short (I suspect that encompasses both Hurricane's and my 'fine'). Of course a parent of an SEN child may well feel that what we are doing is not good enough, and we may well ourselves beat ourselves up, because of those times when we fall short. With infinite resources, infinite training, total transparency of communication, we can miove from 'fine' to 'great' but in reality there is often a compromise.

'For example one child with autism might have totally different triggers to another child with the same label.'

Of course. I remember my ds being made to give a card with a picture of a biscuit on it to someone at snack time after he had asked for a biscuit 3 times verbally, because pictures were supposed to reduce anxiety in children with his disability. What actually raised his anxiety that time was being ignored when asking 3 times and then being made to hand in a picture.

'But what I am saying is that some times, even when all the procedures are in place, systems are correct, sometimes things happen and meltdowns occur.'

How do you know that systems are correct?

'I can and do control my interactions with SEN pupils in line with PSS. IEPs etc. I build working relationships with the pupils, use modulated vocal techniques, time outs, bribes, make deals with other members of staff so that pupils have a "bolt hole" a "safe place" where they can go at anytime.'

I don't doubt it. And it sounds like really hard work and effort on your part. But it does sound like a scattergun approach. For most children with SEN, if they had had decent data taken on them, SMART targets in their IEPs developed from previous years history and defined in line with THEIR needs instead of the schools then it wouldn't take anywhere near that amount of effort to enable them to progress without incident.

'The outburst was, literally, the first we knew of it.'

But that can happen in any public facing job.

teacher I have no doubt that the majority of teachers do the best job they can with some quite overwhelming and competing demands.

I think the system needs a bloody good overhaul tbh. Parents and teachers together would produce such positive outcomes for the kids but the Government and the media have divided them which is encouraged hugely by the LA. Whilst parents and teachers are blaming each other, no-one has to fund anything.

It is ridiculously stressful as a parent, to hand over your vulnerable child to a class teacher who you know has a high chance of putting them at risk due to their lack of training and understanding. This is made worse by the fact that very few teachers (Actually I have met none) that will openly admit to their lack of training and understanding.

They have a child for a year, they'll do the best they can, they like to see for themselves and finally, especially in the state sector, they are often (in my experience coming from a family of a million primary teachers) big believers in education as a way of equalising and therefore like to cut out parents as a variable.

Teachers are also vilified. By the press. By the Government. They are blamed for increases in crime rates, for falling standards (apparently), for behaviour, for attitude, for poor literacy rates, for poor work ethics, for raising socialists. Whatever is supposedly bad in our society, it is apparently usually the fault of schools, which is why they need constant radical changes it would seem.

Teachers have also had their autonomy over how and what they teach removed, or at least very closely controlled. They are observed and inspected and now their contribute to the competition or otherwise of parents trying to get their children into or not into them. Their worth to society has been devalued in financial and benefit terms and their hours are long and increasingly inflexible. They get sad when a child's parents aren't able to make the Christmas play but aren't allowed to see their own child's.

So I do understand, that when faced with a parent of a child who doesn't appear to be having problems to your untrained eye, who is insisting that there is a specific intervention put in place that will require you to find someone to do some laminating, or write something specific in the home-school book daily, after a week of no incidents you'd let these things slip.

However, what I don't understand is how so many teachers can think that it is okay to use the statement provision for one child whose parents fought hard for it, for another child that they deem more worthy/more disruptive etc.

And I don't understand why when the parents ask about how a particular intervention is going, teachers will often answer 'fine' knowing it hasn't been in place for weeks.

As no-one seems to have mentioned I would like to point out that restraint, even when carried out by trained adults, can be highly distressing for the child and may escalate the situation. I do appreciate there are some situations when it is unavoidable such as child trying to bolt out of the school grounds or hurting other people but it should absolutely be used as a last resort. For my ds's who are (a) Very touch sensitive (a light pat feels like a punch to them & unfortunately they may retaliate as such) (b) Have a tendency to over-heat and (c) Have high social anxiety being forced into close proximity with three adults might keep them and others physically safe but has had dire effects on their mental health. I might also add it was extremely unpleasant for the staff doing the restraining. It is also noticeable that whilst we had no physical violence at home before restraint was used it is now sadly a fairly frequent occurrence. Given that my ds's are now the same height as me this is very worrying.

We were often told that once ds1 blew there was nothing that could be done to stop the explosion. The thing with meltdowns though it is rarely just one event that triggers the event but rather the accumulation of lots of stressors throughout the day until the child reaches the point where they literally can not cope with anymore. In terms of de-escalation and prevention, therefore, teachers need to be looking at how they can reduce the child's general stress levels rather than how to prevent than each specific incident and there are lots of things that don't require a lot of time and money that can be used. These are obviously going to be different for each child but for ds1 would include being given a timetable for the week, being warned the day before of any changes to teaching staff or timetable, being given frequent assurance that he is doing the right thing at the right time, avoiding the use of idioms with him. Yes, it takes time but in our experience it takes a lot less time and man power than dealing with the disruption once the meltdown has occurred.

In my mind it is often not training that is the issue but attitude. Treating ds1 as a stubborn and naughty boy will rapidly produce fireworks. Treating ds1 as child who is very anxious and giving him lots of reassurance will calm him & no one will get hurt. Why would you not do the latter?

starlight

I do see where you are coming from and I do agree with what you are saying.

The system is by no means perfect, and needs looking at.
It also needs funding correctly and have the correct number of staff to look after it.

But we also need whole school policies that do not conflict with each other and support not only from parents but external agencies.

In a class of 30+ it is impossible to meet the needs of every child all the time, no matter how much a teacher wants and tries to. Parents of all children with or without SN have to accept this, we have one pair of eyes. A busy classroom cannot revolve around the needs of one child, the others have needs as well that may sometimes conflict with the needs of one or two children.

29 children cannot be told to stop "normal" classroom interaction and activities because what they are doing may be a trigger for one child, their needs and development are just as important. A 1 to 1 working with that child can support the child and try to identify when the child is becoming anxious and withdraw that child to a safe space to calm down. This costs money which many LEAs are reluctant to put into schools. It takes far too long to identify that support is needed and to get the funding and meanwhile everyone struggles.

Specialist schools have smaller classes and more staff and even then not all needs can be met all of the time. Some mainstream schools have units attached for children with additional needs. We need more of these.

Solutions will always come down to funding. Funding for training, funding for additional staff and funding to support parents at home. If the money came from a central source rather than local funding that would be a step forward.

I work in an area related to this and it frustrates me to see comments like: teachers shouldn't have to deal with violent children. There is always a reason for a child's behaviour and children shouldn't have to deal with domestic violence or undiagnosed learning difficulties or parental mental health issues or abuse or family breakdown or poverty or...

But we do not live in a perfect world in which every child has a life outside school that will enable them to concentrate, behave perfectly and cope with school. Sometimes they do not belong in mainstream education. Sometimes they do.

It is true that teachers need more training, eg in Team Teach techniques. But to say they shouldn't have to deal with violent children is to fail to recognise that violence, in the majority of cases, is a symptom of other, solvable issues. Most children who behave in violent ways are not budding serial killers.

So Sunna do you think you have had enough training in special needs?

I'm retired now but when I worked in a specialist school or (occasionally)as a 1 to 1 in mainstream I had excellent training but this was in the days when funding was more readily available. I also did a lot of reading, naturally, and tried to keep up to date with the latest research.

When we'd been on courses we would present what we had learned to the rest of the staff afterwards. We'd also spread around what we had learned from reading.

However, I retired earlier than most because of "burn out". I was exhausted. If I had been working in mainstream I think I would have carried on teaching for longer.

I remember when I was at school one girl aged 15 (now be registered as ads but wasn't in those days) suddenly started throwing chairs, up ending tables and throwing books in the library at lunchtime. One minute she been reading next throwing chairs. At the time only the librarian was there. (Part time older lady who just came in at lunchtime and after school). I remember I was quietly reading on one of the tables with some friends. (And giggling and writing notes etc) She screamed at us to go to the teachers staff room and get her some help and everyone to get out now. She quietly asked the girl to sit down but her face (librarian) looked very frightened. I remember as I left lots of teachers running in including the pe teacher. No idea what happened but this was the 1980s so limited training for the teachers. Librarian was never on her own again. The girl never came into school again. So training isn't just for teachers but support staff. By the way it was very frightening seeing those plastic chairs flying past you.

A busy classroom cannot revolve around the needs of one child, the others have needs as well that may sometimes conflict with the needs of one or two children.

But as I said above many of the things that my ds1 needs to stop him going into meltdown in no way conflict with the needs of the other children and infact may be beneficial for them too e.g. advance warning of changes to the timetable. Even if you go the segregation route (which we have) it conflicts with the needs of the other children as it is so expensive. ds1's school fees are effectively the same as two TA salaries. The LEA only have a limited amount of resources so if they pay his school fees then there is less money to support other kids in mainstream. A cheaper option would have been to put support in for him swiftly in mainstream when his difficulties first became apparent.

He is undoubtedly far happier in his special school than when he was unsupported in mainstream. We will never know if he could have been happy in mainstream if he had been adequately supported and that does grieve me.

A busy classroom rarely has to resolve around the needs of one child. That only happens if the teacher is utterly incapable of understanding that child's needs in which case the child will become a full-time 'issue'.

With proper planning the child can be accommodated in most environments.

I do disagree with the funding issue though. Money does not raise attainment. Money does not turn an ambiguous IEP into a SMART one. And lack of money does not create teachers who chose not to inform parents that their children are not getting the provision written in their statements.

In fact, children being denied provision they are legally entitled to, with no recourse as the parents are unaware, actually justifies the cuts.

I absolutely agree there should be more training for teacher, in fact anyone, working with children with SEN/behavioural issues.

I'm a foster carer and I've had to get down and beg Children's Services for specialised training and when that was not forthcoming found it (and paid for it) for myself, but it wasn't that specialised or helpful. There just wasn't the quality training I (and many other foster carers) need

We had an extremely violent placement for a while (would never have taken the placement had we known the history, but that's another story). This young person transferred to a PRU, who you would think did have training and experience in dealing with behavioural issues, but was utterly failed by staff who just didn't know how to deal with them. We had some good strategies at home which usually de-escalated issues before they reached violence, but the PRU didn't have a clue and simply sent them home when they'd made such a hash of dealing with difficult situations that the young person had become wound up and angry.

The placement ended when the young person came home from school so extremely angry and wound up that they went for my 8 year old child and I had them removed from my house by the police. I was then suspended for a while as I'd had to step in and restrain the 16 year old young person from attacking my 8 year old child

The whole thing was an extremely frustrating nightmare that had me feeling like I was banging my head against a wall daily. We made so much progress at home, it was so sad. Half an hour reading the Young Person's history was heart breaking but explained exactly why they had issues with anger

The PRU was recently put into special measures by Ofsted who basically repeated just about everything I had been saying for months

Everybody else can't stop 'normal activities' no. But you can offer ear defenders, a safe space, fidget toys,
Chewy toys etc.

And all this bollocks about having no sensory space for a child to go to in the school if they needed space.... I had a dark den in the classroom (big tent) with lights and sensory toys inside as a safe space for the child.

It was too loud for another child a different year so I put a tent in a corner of the corridor for him to retreat to with his TA. You don't need a full room, just a corner, a tent, and some imagination to make it appealing and sensory,

a lot of the violent kids in school have no SEN
they are just violent.

No one is 'just violent' especially not a child.