IndyRef 7

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

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Carol Craig article also puts her finger on opportunities seen by libertarians: why Murdoch was tweeting about opportunities for libertarians just the other day..

Chocoluvva

"*Positive reasons to stay in the UK:

working with everyone in UK to improve the lot of those whose lot needs improving in the UK

enjoying the geographical practicalities of a shared island

feeling good about ourselves for making the responsible decision to continue on as part of a team through the tough times as well as the good times

sharing our resources across the land

continuing to build on the achievements of the UK"*

Well thank you for at least trying to give positive reasons for the union.

It's the first time I've seen that in 7 threads.

In answer:

I don't think we do work together for mutual benefit. There is a widening gap between the rich and poor which none of the WM parties have addressed in government.

There are areas of Scotland where the poverty is unimaginable for those in the eton/Oxbridge Westminster bubble.

The FPTP system means these people's votes don't count so the poorest have been left behind by the UK and the only option they have now is independence.

The UK is not an island. Northern Ireland! Scotland is a nation of many islands.

What 'good times'?
Scottish house prices have stagnated since 2007, London's are up 35%. Our economy is horrendously london centric. Resources do not get shared. Canary Wharf and the City was built on Scottish oil money. I travel between Scotland and London frequentlyand what I see is money pouring out of Scotland and pouring into London.

What achievements of the UK? The Iraq war? Was that an achievement? Should we be proud that we laid the foundations for what IS is doing now?

Sorry I just don't think there is enough of a positive case for the union.

Apologies, I misunderstood. There is a certain sub set of people who are very unpleasant to declared No voters. I'm not trying to be inflammatory, or say it's everyone, or anything else. Just that there are some people who behave like this. They do exist in both sides, but my personal experience is that I have seen more coming from the Yes camp. I'm not extrapolating that city wide or nation wide, that's just my own observation.

We had a couple of borderline abusive people when I was out last night, and one guy wearing multiple YES badges who started lurching towards me (carrying No Thanks posters and wearing a badge) in an aggressive manner until he realised I was with a fairly large group where he suddenly backed off.

There are also a huge amount of photos of vandalised NO Thanks posters kicking about. If I lived a few floors up I'd put one up, don't know about ground floor level though!

You don't have to look far to see the sneering. I don't believe I said belittled.

Rupert Murdoch is Australian and has always wanted a Republic Australia free from the queen.

He will see scottish independence as a means to that.

The sun did support the snp at the last minute at the last election so this now doesn't surprise me.

I don't care about people not agreeing with me it is the real division that this causes as demonstrated on this thread. After the election, if it is Yes I will have to move to SE England to a much lower standard of living and I will hate my friends who have voted Yes and put me and my family into such a situation. If it is a No vote, my friends potentially will hate me for ending their dream of an independent country. This vote is highly divisive and at the end of it we will all need to move on one way or another so it is sometimes better not to know how our nearest and dearest voted.

I've had similar experiences as a yes supporter. And obviously the incidences I've been party too are examples of no supporters acting badly because I'm on the other side. Death threats to leaders, shite smeared over yes shops...

Doesn't mean I won't put a poster up, wear a badge and say yes.

But I keep hearing that no voters are to scared to go public with their decision.

I find that defeatist attitude,rather lame, to scared to say what you think. Have some bloody courage.

Weatherall, now you're back, can you clarify your point about redistributing wealth without increasing taxes, as I and I think, oddcommentator asked?

Also

I travel between Scotland and London frequently and what I see is money pouring out of Scotland and pouring into London.

But it's been clarified on these threads that each Scottish person receives on average £1200 more per head than the English, and in turn - when using a five year average, gives £1200 more per head to Westminster.

Lovely, can you clarify how I have painted myself as a victim for not wanting to share publicly me views on the referendum?

weatherall: 'There are areas of Scotland where the poverty is unimaginable for those in the eton/Oxbridge Westminster bubble.'
Same is true in England. Some of these areas are in London - it's not exempt you know.

'...what I see is money pouring out of Scotland and pouring into London'. You can actually see it? Wow.

Rupert Murdoch has long since shaken off the shackles of nationalism. He's US citizen for reasons of his own.

Wake up weatherall you are being played.

The Sun are glory hunters though weatherall. They jump onto the bandwagon at the last gasp and claim they knew all along it would end in such a way.

"so it is sometimes better not to know how our nearest and dearest voted."

You're telling me shenanigins.

There's only one Old Etonian in the Cabinet.

LovleyRita - I have actually had a negative reaction from someone, simply for disagreeing politely with her for something she said re. the referendum. It has put me off making any more comments, no matter how mild.

I know this is anecdotal, but when ds1 went into a bank in Carlisle to open a new account yesterday, the person who opened the account for him told him that they had seen a very real increase in the number of people from across the border coming to open accounts in an English bank.

I'm willing to bet money on none of you saying you need to leave actually going anywhere after a yes vote.

You seem to have got yourselves into such a spiral of panic, I feel sorry for you all.

Shenanigans you said you were keeping quiet for fear of a negative reaction. You are acting like a victim of something that hasn't even happened.

If there is a YES majority do we know who will be negotiating on behalf of rUK?

So nice of you to bet on my life and my current unhappiness, LovleyRita.

Do you think it's all been rainbows and applause declaring you are a yes voter? No. But you have confidence in your decision and share your reasons.