to actually feel sorry for the driver of the car? WARNING- upsetting video.

[ToThePark]

Ok, so I've been a wimp and name changed in case I get totally flamed.

www.suffolk.police.uk/newsandevents/newsstories/2014/september/hardhittingvideolaunched.aspx

The motorcyclist was travelling at 100mph past a busy junction. I watched this video and thought, as a car driver, this could easily happen to me. What an horrific thing to have on your conscience.

What if it had been a child crossing?

Quote from the police:

If the Yamaha had been driving at 60 miles per hour the collision could have been avoided.

Call me crazy, but I somehow get the impression that 5mad might know the road...

Yes, but only by the biker taking evasive action to avoid the car. Which he shouldn't have to do. Therefore, car driver also at fault.

I feel the sentence was very harsh though.

If the Yamaha had been driving at 60 miles per hour the collision could have been avoided

In avoiding the collision it would be very likely that the motorcyclist would still have come off his bike, he still would have been injured, possibly fatally.

That policemans quote gives the impression all would have been ok if he were going slower and possibly able to avoid collision, but its not as simple as that.

Avoiding a collision when both parties are in cars is one thing, with a bike in the mix, its very different. motorcyclist dont have seat belts and air bags, they come off their bikes and fly through the air/along the rd at the speed they were riding at, at best, broken bones and road rash, at worst, head injuries and death.

Avoiding a collision when both parties are in cars is one thing, with a bike in the mix, its very different. motorcyclist dont have seat belts and air bags, they come off their bikes and fly through the air/along the rd at the speed they were riding at, at best, broken bones and road rash, at worst, head injuries and death.

Which is exactly why they shouldn't take stupid risks such as in the video (again, not absolving the driver of blame). I understand the biker's situation to a degree, being a horse rider - you are aware of how vulnerable you are on the road and just how fucking hard you can hit it having done so, which means you take calculated risks and sometimes have to resort to aggressive riding. I have literally stopped traffic from the back of my horse when I've felt it needed it. I get it. But that doesn't mean you take stupid risks then are absolved from blame when they go tits ups. Everyone needs to be aware than bike/horse + car is generally going to result in the former coming worse off but if you are going to take risks, sometimes they don't come off. I am very sorry this man died and it as probably a split second decision on his part but I cannot defend the speeds he was doing and the risk he took (seemingly) knowing where was. Hopefully this video will make both drivers and bikers pay more attention and not take risks because of it, and I think we can all agree how brave it was for his mother to post this. With any luck this will save a life.

If the car was turning across his path and he hit it, surely he would not have hit it if he was doing almost half the speed? He wouldn't have reached it, the car would have been out of his way. The difference between 60 and 100 is tremendous!

Have you watched the video Mintyy?

I don't think the car would have been out of his way had he been going at 60.

How can you say that had the motorcyclist been driving responsibly he still would have died?

From his shout he didn't seem to notice the car until way too late, just as the motorist didn't notice him. Surely his speed contributed to that? The first time I watched I couldn't predict which car would hit him since he drove so fast, I didn't notice the responsible car until too late either (a split second before his shout but after it had started to roll across the road).

The way the bike eats up ground is terrifying.

This video made me cry.

As a motorcyclist of 33+ years and one that frequented race meets, I can tell you that adrenalin and the excitement of the days racing will make you ride fast.

I'm not condoning those sorts of speeds especially on single carriageways, but I can see the reason that he probably would have done it.
The car driver would not have stood a chance of seeing him at that speed until it was too late and in fact, may not have seen him before he felt/heard the collision.

Bikers make good car drivers because largely, we are very aware of bikes, but even I have almost been caught out by silly 'boys' racing around my car and whilst I did see one of them, I didn't see the one that undertook me. Luckily, I avoided them both.

Bikers are hyper aware of cars and in general, most car drivers just don't see bikers.

Something I have always said (even though it could never happen) is that everyone should ride a motorbike for at least two weeks before they can get into a car. It would give a wider perspective.

How can you say that had the motorcyclist been driving responsibly he still would have died?

Because responsibly riding motorcyclists die every year due to car drivers not seeing them/looking for them. Coming off a bike pretty much guarantees injury.

Or do you think only speeding motorcyclists die in accidents?

No Knee and I appreciate that motorcyclists are vastly more vulnerable than motorists. But how can you say the speed was not a contributing factor in this accident?

Perhaps I should mention that I don't drive any kind of vehicle, so I'm asking out of curiosity rather than defensiveness.

Something I have always said (even though it could never happen) is that everyone should ride a motorbike for at least two weeks before they can get into a car. It would give a wider perspective.

I agree; likewise they should sit on the back of a horse and tow a trailer with something precious to them in it before passing their driving licence. I get how vulnerable bikers are, I really do, but this one took several risks before the accident that killed him. There's a difference between defensive riding and just being an idiot. Sadly most drivers have never ridden a bike/horse or towed something and therefore don't get how difficult it can be to do, but that doesn't give people a pass just because they're more vulnerable.

I have to say as a horse rider and as someone that tows a trailer/drives a horse lorry that the majority of bikers, and 'boy racer' types, are fab with horses - they slow right down or stop/turn off their engines not that either of my horses are bothered and wait until we're a decent distance before starting up again. It's usually the middle aged idiot in a Beemer/Audi or white van that I have to pummel with a whip or take up the road with a horse vehicle to stop them overtaking in a ridiculous manner

I'm a horse rider too and I do have to agree that motorcyclists always seem to have a special friendliness to four legged road users although hearing the engine coming a mile off sends my horse friggin nuts

IMO Someone breaking the limit shouldn't have been featured in the think bike campaign. It shifts focus.

I'm a horse rider too and I do have to agree that motorcyclists always seem to have a special friendliness to four legged road users although hearing the engine coming a mile off sends my horse friggin nuts

Take them hunting - they'll soon get used to the sounds of quads and by default motorbikes

Username, I agree! It's a tragic video to watch, but he lost control of the situation the minute he decided to do 45mph over the speed limit.

My friend was killed on his bike by a car pulling out that didn't see him. He was slowing down anyway for the next turn on the A Road, but it didn't matter. The car wasn't looking and didn't see him. That's what people need to be aware of.

It's obviously horrendously sad for the family of this guy (and the car driver) but it would be far more use in a campaign for bikers to slow down.

The most traumatic moment of my life was seeing a guy, who had been speeding and weaving in and out of traffic on his bike, hit by a car several cars in front. He was then hit by a car going in the opposite direction and came to a rest in front of my (now stopped) car. He died, his clothes pretty much evaporated and my children watched a mostly naked man convulse and die right in front of their eyes. I know it's irrational but, to this day, I'm angry at that biker for giving my children such a terrible memory. Because if he'd just slowed down for 5 minutes, it wouldn't have happened.

How can car drivers see bikes in time if they ride at 100mph? We do have to concentrate on driving the car forwards, not hitting other cars, directions, speed limits, pedestrians, traffic lights, junctions, hazards etc, you know.

I look in my mirrors a LOT - passed my test 12 months ago, and it was drilled into me - and they still roar past me out of nowhere on a weekly basis. I mean a LOT, to the point where multiple passengers have commented how aware I am of traffic behind and to the side.

Bikers who weave incessantly, trying to get past queues (), and who speed, cannot expect car drivers to anticipate their suicidal stupidity. You want the same consideration car drivers give to other cars/lorries/buses? Then drive like them. Just because you can fit through a gap, doesn't mean you should.
I am sad for the motorcyclists family, but these discussions make me .

I haven't watched the video or seen news about this particular case but the comments seem to suggest the driver received a ban, points and a fine after being charged with causing death by dangerous driving?

If I've understood that correctly, then it is almost certainly the case that the motorcyclist's speed was used as mitigation when determining the driver's sentence, as it is unusual these days for imprisonment not to be the starting point in a DBDD case.

I used to work for the CPS and we prosecuted an extremely similar case a few years ago - car driver turned right across an oncoming bike - with the main difference being the biker was riding at the speeds limit. The motorist was imprisoned.

I hated dealing with DBDD cases even more than murders; just a case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Usually they were as a result of a misjudgement or a badly-calculated risk - it was comparatively rare, though not unheard of, for it to be because of a deliberately-chosen course of bad driving - and in that instant, everyone's lives changed for the worse: victim, victim's loved ones, driver, driver's loved ones. Just tragic :(

To this day I can't understand how the lorry driver who nearly killed my motor biking husband didn't see him. Lorry driver turned in front of him, exactly like this video. DH wasn't speeding. I can only assume that it is harder to judge the speed of bikes than cars?

Gemling it seems to be because people aren't looking for bikes, so they don't see bikes. It's as if the only thing they expect to see on the road are car-shapes.

Mintyy Are you in Guernsey?

I must admit its hard for me driving in the uk now after 10 years of driving at Jersey speeds. When our maximum is 40 mph you get complacent.

Bikes over here are a nightmare, total nightmare. They weave in and out of traffic, over take and undertake on bends and then complain about car drivers

If the car was turning across his path and he hit it, surely he would not have hit it if he was doing almost half the speed? He wouldn't have reached it, the car would have been out of his way. The difference between 60 and 100 is tremendous!

I have watched the video, and I must say I agreed with Minty's assessment.

I'm not going to watch it again because it made me feel sick, but what did others think? If the bike had been going the speed limit, would the car not have completed it's turn and be out of the way before the bike reached the spot where they collided?

Gemling it seems to be because people aren't looking for bikes, so they don't see bikes. It's as if the only thing they expect to see on the road are car-shapes.

I agree that this is part of the problem.

Unfortunately, another part of the problem is that car drivers are busy looking out for vehicles larger than theirs. A few years ago, a huge truck changed lanes on top of me on a dual-carriage road. I was in a tiny hatchback, and the side of my car where there was a baby seat for my niece was completely crumpled, and my car was shoved off the road into a footpath. It was terrifying. His excuse? He 'just didn't see me'.

So now, I'm hyper-aware of all the high, large vehicles whose drivers aren't watching out for my little car. And of course, I'm watching for bikes as well (am especially aware since my OH rides a motorbike, as did my ex). But I do think it's human instinct to be more focused on what might kill you. So yes, rightly or wrongly, motorbike riders do need to drive defensively at all times.

I will probably get flamed here, but where is the campaign to motorcyclists, saying 'think car'? They have a responsibility on the roads too.

Simple.

When a car and motorbike collide it is the biker who dies.

My one collision as a biker was a car turning in to me. There was a queue of traffic, I was perfectly legally overtaking it ()outside the cars, inside the dotted white line) I could see car on the road to my right and someone flashed their lights to let her turn right, only she didn't look further than that car's lights, turned right. I was going 10-20 mph.

If I'd turned left I would have hit a car, if I'd gone straight ahead I would have gone over her bonnet or broadsided her so I went right, hoping she would take the turn wide and/or she would see me and stop/turn away.

Yes I was breaking.

She did see me and break and the final collision was probably about 5 mph and resulted in one slightly broken number plate and her screaming at me and my passenger.