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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to actually feel sorry for the driver of the car? WARNING- upsetting video.

496 replies

ToThePark · 04/09/2014 21:55

Ok, so I've been a wimp and name changed in case I get totally flamed.

www.suffolk.police.uk/newsandevents/newsstories/2014/september/hardhittingvideolaunched.aspx

The motorcyclist was travelling at 100mph past a busy junction. I watched this video and thought, as a car driver, this could easily happen to me. What an horrific thing to have on your conscience.

What if it had been a child crossing?

OP posts:
muffinino82 · 04/09/2014 23:52

No.

Because some car drivers just don't bother or think to look out for bikes before manoeuvering.

So no blame at all can be laid at the feet of the biker who was performing an illegal manoeuvre?

5madthings · 04/09/2014 23:52

Looks are deceiving, the hill coupled with the speed of that road makes it a tricky turning. Dp won't turn there, he used to have to but about five? Years ago they put in a roundabout a bit further up where there used to be an equally bad t junction.

It's a notorious accident black spot.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 04/09/2014 23:52

Ah, I'm sorry.

On the video, it looks good, so I mistook it.

Are they planning any changes? There's a road near my parents' home where lots of people have died, and a few years ago, they redid the road.

TiffanyToothache · 04/09/2014 23:53

I believe you 5madthings, it's just my personal 'risk assessment' of that junction, as a driver, would have been that it was pretty standard, nothing out of the ordinary. So I am trying, I suppose, to figure out why this, and all the other accidents here, happen.

muffinino82 · 04/09/2014 23:53

I'm not saying the driver shouldn't have paid more due attention but I cannot absolve the biker who was also in the wrong

5madthings · 04/09/2014 23:53

His speed was illegal, the overtaking manoeuvre wasn't.

Yes if he was alive he must accept sone fault and his family are clear that he was driving too fast but ultimately the driver didn't look properly and has admitted so himself.

Sootball · 04/09/2014 23:55

^ the hill ans the corner makes it a vrappy junction ans cars go stupid fast. It's also a very busy road. We don't have motorways in Norfolk, that's the A47 which along with the A11 is mostly single carriage way trunk road leading into the vast very agricultural ans quarry dominated region. We have major traffic on that road, particularly at that point which is travelling fast with few breaks hence people take chances.

Some badly.

KneeQuestion · 04/09/2014 23:56

So no blame at all can be laid at the feet of the biker who was performing an illegal manoeuvre?

He would be done for speeding, but he can't as he is dead. Of course he was in the wrong to be speeding, but that doesnt make the car driver any less wrong for what he did.

Sootball · 04/09/2014 23:56

Ans I clearly type vee eery slowly.

5madthings · 04/09/2014 23:56

Well they put in the roundabout so lots of people drive a bit further and go that way. I am nit sure what they can do? Reducing the speed limit would be a good start. It's very deceptive ad it is a wide straight road. Sadly lots of roads in Norfolk are like that. Bit like Lincolnshire in that respect which I think is the county with the highest total road deaths per year.

muffinino82 · 04/09/2014 23:57

His speed was illegal, the overtaking manoeuvre wasn't

By default his speed made the manoeuvre illegal, surely. Both were to blame. Sadly, as a biker, he was more vulnerable, however the driver could easily have died, too. I still think that both drivers and bikers need to be aware of the stupid ass things they do, not just drivers.

Sootball · 04/09/2014 23:57

There is a corner as you come from the roundabout to the junction in question travelling westbound.

Reducing the speed limit is really the only option.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 04/09/2014 23:59

Funny you mention Lincolnshire - the road I am thinking of lies in Nottinghamshire near Lincolnshire.

I don't know what they could do - I just wondered if anything was being planned. With us, the banned right turns across traffic, and then a few years later did much more substantial (and controversial) work building a new dual carriageway.

It wouldn't, obviously, solve the problem of people speeding or not seeing others.

KneeQuestion · 04/09/2014 23:59

The A47 has some very dangerous stretches, there have been some horrible accidents. The acle straight [the stretch of the A47 that runs into great yarmouth] part in particular is a bad one, there are water filled ditches alongside the road, some accident victims have drowned after crashing along that road.

MokunMokun · 04/09/2014 23:59

Perhaps if there is a lot of traffic it takes a long time to wait for a break in the traffic long enough to turn safely? In that case drivers may get impatient and turn when it is not really clear enough to do so.

There is a junction like that near where I live but they have installed traffic lights with a right-turn light which helps a lot.

The driver in the video really should have waited but I can understand if he had been sitting there a long time he took a risk.

ReadyToBreak · 04/09/2014 23:59

Undertaking and "weaving" in and out of traffic aka filtering is not illegal either.

As a car driver, if you cannot cope with the added hazard of a motorcyclist (who is more predictable than a child/dog running into the road) then why are you driving?

I think the CBT should be compulsory to all those wishing to use the road as it will completely change your driving.

It's statistcally proven that drivers who are motorcyclists aswell make better and safer drivers.

muffinino82 · 05/09/2014 00:00

He would be done for speeding, but he can't as he is dead. Of course he was in the wrong to be speeding, but that doesnt make the car driver any less wrong for what he did.

Never said it made the driver less in the wrong but the biker has to take some portion blame for the ridiculous speed he was doing. If it had been the other way around and the car driver had died not the biker (unlikely, I know) then they would still be equally at fault. Again, if this had been two cars, what would people's view be?

TiffanyToothache · 05/09/2014 00:01

Looking at the video again, it appears the car driver doesn't really pause to assess the on coming traffic. He seems to steadily move into the filter lane and then across the traffic.

mollypup · 05/09/2014 00:02

it may not be illegal but it bloody well should be, especially on a-roads.

5madthings · 05/09/2014 00:02

Perhaps if there is a lot of traffic it takes a long time to wait for a break in the traffic long enough to turn safely? In that case drivers may get impatient and turn when it is not really clear enough to do so. THAT is exactly what happens on that stretch of road. And yes the acle straight is another bad bit.

Norfolk roads aren't designed for the volume of traffic they are now getting.

ReadyToBreak · 05/09/2014 00:02

I agree with you muffin on your last point however, even at 40mph in this situation the biker still would have had an accident, suffered injury etc, because of the car drivers action.

KneeQuestion · 05/09/2014 00:07

muffin, I dont think anyone has said the motorcyclist wasn't in the wrong to be doing such speeds, but other than acknowledge that, how can he take any blame? he is dead!

Even if he hadn't been doing 90+mph, he still would have come off his bike and been injured, quite possibly still fatally.

His speed was not the cause of the accident.

muffinino82 · 05/09/2014 00:07

I agree with you muffin on your last point however, even at 40mph in this situation the biker still would have had an accident, suffered injury etc, because of the car drivers action.

I agree that the car driver was stupid however there is a possibility that they may have missed each other or the biker may have been able to get around him/slow down. I don't know, it's all very awful for everyone involved but having re-watched the video I don't think completely absolving either party is correct as they were both to blame Sad

londonrach · 05/09/2014 00:09

Tbh the speed the motorcyclist was going he was more at fault as he seemed to be overtaking and then at the junction. The car driver may not have seen him as he was going to fast. Rip motorcyclist. His poor family and I really feel for the car driver. Not easy watching and certainly not to be watched again

muffinino82 · 05/09/2014 00:12

muffin, I dont think anyone has said the motorcyclist wasn't in the wrong to be doing such speeds, but other than acknowledge that, how can he take any blame? he is dead!

Just because he's dead doesn't mean he wasn't to blame Hmm

Even if he hadn't been doing 90+mph, he still would have come off his bike and been injured, quite possibly still fatally.

I didn't say he wouldn't have been, or at least I don't think so now, having re-watched it. The driver is to blame, the biker is to blame.

His speed was not the cause of the accident.

It was a contributing factor, surely. Maybe if he was going slower there may have been some wiggle room. I don't know this or the road but there's a possibility, surely, that doing 2/3rds the speed limit contributed to this?

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