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AIBU?

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Original poster

to actually feel sorry for the driver of the car? WARNING- upsetting video.

496 replies

ToThePark · 04/09/2014 21:55

Ok, so I've been a wimp and name changed in case I get totally flamed.

www.suffolk.police.uk/newsandevents/newsstories/2014/september/hardhittingvideolaunched.aspx

The motorcyclist was travelling at 100mph past a busy junction. I watched this video and thought, as a car driver, this could easily happen to me. What an horrific thing to have on your conscience.

What if it had been a child crossing?

OP posts:
EmeraldLion · 05/09/2014 06:31

IMO Someone breaking the limit shouldn't have been featured in the think bike campaign. It shifts focus

THIS.

I do have sympathy for the biker, and his family. It's a sad situation.

But my overriding thought isn't 'think bike' after watching that. It's what an irresponsible, selfish idiot the biker was. If he'd been going the speed limit the car would have had ample time to complete the turn, and it is difficult to judge bike speed from a distance.

That bike couldn't have reacted to anything on the road at that speed. Change that car to a group of children crossing and there would potentially have been many deaths.

Personally I have nothing but sympathy for the driver of the car.

saintlyjimjams · 05/09/2014 07:03

I think if you want to run a think bike campaign it would be more effective to do it with a biker who was driving sensibly. The mum here wasn't talking solely about cars thinking bike - she also made the point that her son was going too fast. Brave lady. Speed was a large part of that accident. It wasn't just a car driver being idiotic.

We have windy lanes here that bikers love to ride fast along - there are a lot of fatalities - they've started listing them. Often no-one else is involved the biker has just lost control & ended up hitting a wall or something but occasionally they kill other people as well - such as the biker who overtook on a slight bend downhill going at a ridiculous speed & hit a car driver in the correct lane on the opposite side of the road.

Yes get people to think bike (I grew up with my uncle saying think once think twice think bike to me - i also never jump red lights as he explained to me about bike acceleration - not that i wouid anyway but i'm extra careful) but get bikers to cut speeds & wear high viz clothing as well. Driving at 97mph on a public road is just stupid - by that very act you risk your life & others - even without adding in people in control of several tons of metal who you need to see you.

HungryHorace · 05/09/2014 07:13

SignYourName, it was death by careless driving, not dangerous, that the driver was convicted of.

I've not watched the video yet, but will shortly.

I used to work at a solicitors' firm which specialised in motorcycle accident claims. Probably at least 50%, perhaps more, ended up with some form of split liability decision, or some contributory negligence on behalf of the motorcyclist.

As with anything, there are some crap / stupid car drivers out there, just as there are some crap / stupid motorcyclists.

It's the ones who ride motorcycles at speed wearing their everyday clothes / trainers that really bother me. I've seen some horrific photos of injuries on men who were wearing full leathers. It doesn't bear thinking about what could happen if you slid down a road a speed in shorts and a t shirt. :-/

DarceyBustle · 05/09/2014 07:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SignYourNameInBrownAndFlame · 05/09/2014 07:16

Thanks for clarifying Horace.

WaywardOn3 · 05/09/2014 07:25

How sad for all involved :-(

DH has a motorbike, had them since he was 18. He's really increased my knowledge on why bike riders do as they do. That increased awareness has led me to avoid at least 2 potential accidents with a bike. I'm now constantly looking for them as they do seem to appear out of nowhere.

He also told me that if a bike rider isn't wearing the proper leathers etc then if they fall off at 60mph it's about 3-6 seconds from skin to bone :-(

saintlyjimjams · 05/09/2014 07:33

I saw a pillion passenger in shorts on the motorway at the weekend - biker was going at about 90 :shudder: DH and I both gulped. sashh - it's not always just the biker who dies - I can think of several cases locally where a car driver has been killed due to having a biker/biker land in their lap at speed.

Notacs · 05/09/2014 07:43

I couldn't agree with humptys post on page6 more.

KneeQuestion · 05/09/2014 07:45

Bikers who weave incessantly, trying to get past queues

You don't mean filtering do you? which is legal, but many car drivers don't realise that and get annoyed at motorcyclists who do it.

I do wish this campaign had featured a motorcyclist who was within speed limits.

LottieMumofWilfJenkins · 05/09/2014 07:47

I have a friend who's fiancee was killed on his motorbike shortly before their wedding by a car reversing out of a side road. She had found out she was pregnant that day and he never knew........ Sad
I used to go out with a guy who had an enormous m/b and i used to lie in bed listening to him going home at speed and i hated it.

Notacs · 05/09/2014 07:48

It's the speed with which they do it, and the revving and looming behind you to try to get you to move I object to.

If someone wants to move past me in a queue, fine; if someone wants to move past at 40 mph when other traffic isn't moving making a horrible noise and nearly removing my wing mirror, I DO object.

I really don't like them. There - I've said it. I think they are dangerous to themselves and to others.

hackmum · 05/09/2014 08:07

Just watched the video - kind of wished I hadn't. As a car driver, this is one of the things that terrifies me - I leave in fear of making a mistake that will kill someone.

The trouble is, you can't be prepared for every possibility. The driver didn't see the motorbike - of course he didn't - otherwise he wouldn't have made the turn. The motorcyclist was way way over the speed limit. I don't know what would have happened if he was within the speed limit, but perhaps the driver would have seen him and braked, or perhaps the motorcyclist would have had time to slow down or swerve. 100 miles an hour is very very fast indeed. Sometimes I've been shocked when about to turn right out of a junction, thinking I've got enough room and a car has come whizzing past at speed apparently from nowhere - when someone goes that fast it's literally a case of you don't see them one moment, then they're right in front of you.

I don't think they should have released this video. You should always be careful as a driver but you can't account for the eventuality of someone coming at you at 100 mph.

hackmum · 05/09/2014 08:16

Just had another thought, which is this: human beings make mistakes, all of us, all of the time. Mostly they don't result in the death of another human being. But road and traffic systems need to be designed to minimise human error, and it looks from what others have said that this is a particularly dangerous turning.

The car driver made a mistake, but the motorcyclist was knowingly breaking the law. When you think about the number of safety messages directed at car drivers that emphasise how much more likely it is to kill someone when you're going at 40mph than at 30mph, then it seems illogical to be aiming the safety message here at car drivers when the motorcyclist was going at a speed that was utterly reckless.

tiggytape · 05/09/2014 08:20

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

hackmum · 05/09/2014 09:30

Have been thinking about this for the past hour! My conclusion is that if you regularly ride a motorbike at 100mph, you probably can't expect to live for very long.

OwlCapone · 05/09/2014 09:32

it seems illogical to be aiming the safety message here at car drivers when the motorcyclist was going at a speed that was utterly reckless.

I agree with this.

OwlCapone · 05/09/2014 09:38

This is a chart showing stopping distances up to 70 mph. You can imagine how high the bar would be at 100mph and compare it to that at 60mph. It's probably not far off twice the distance.

to actually feel sorry for the driver of the car? WARNING- upsetting video.
Maryz · 05/09/2014 09:49

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

HumptyDumptyBumpty · 05/09/2014 09:57

knee I know filtering is fine - I was talking about weaving from the inside to the outside of lanes between cars, often (certainly round here) going into the oncoming lane to get round, and doing this at speed. It's horrendously dangerous. Drivers cannot keep an eye on a bike whose movements are that unpredictable, not and drive safely wrt other cars and lorries. We do need one eye on the road ahead!
I've no problem with proper filtering, and understand that it keeps the roads moving.

Achooblessyou · 05/09/2014 10:00

I disagree with the people saying "even at 60 mph it would have been fatal"

Yes if he had hit at 60 it might have been, but if doing 60 he would have had extra precious seconds to brake so the actual collision would be at a lower speed.

Also the car driver had to check the road ahead, and check that the side road was clear, she night just have been very unlucky with her timing. Feel very sorry for what she now has to live with. Haven't seen the hateful comments about her online but seems unfair.

On a bike you are vulnerable so why take these silly risks?

Very sad for all involved.

KneeQuestion · 05/09/2014 10:14

So therefore the car turning across would have been basing his turn on the speed of the car coming towards him and had plenty of space to turn right - had the bike not been there, he would have completed the turn before the car got anywhere near him

He admitted he didn't see the car that the motorcyclist overtook either.

Which is I assume how they came to the death by careless driving charge?

KneeQuestion · 05/09/2014 10:16

ie, it was his lack of care that caused the accident, not the motorcyclists speed.

MokunMokun · 05/09/2014 10:17

The police said that the drivers of other cars had seen both the motorbike and the car. I think that is one of the main reasons the sentence was so harsh. The driver could have seen them if he had looked properly.

"The driver of the Renault, who admitted not seeing David or the car travelling behind, was prosecuted in April. While David was travelling above the speed limit, a number of other drivers had seen both the motorbike and the other car."

Eauneau · 05/09/2014 10:22

I wonder if the family of the motorcyclist had considered the car driver when they decided to release this video? That poor driver is probably still dealing with the aftermath of this horrific accident, but may just be starting to get on with their life - and now this accident has been released for the world to see and they are now subject to vile comments from people on the Internet. How awful.

Yes, they shouldn't have turned, but really this could have happened to anyone - anyone who has been driving for any amount of timehas had at least a couple of 'shhhiiiiiiiitttttt' moments, due to a lapse of judgement even for a second, because basically, we are humans not computers. The difference is that in most cases you don't have a motorbike travelling at that sort of speed coming towards you.

I agree with the poster upthread who said that if you are going to habitually drive at 100mph along single carriageway roads on a motorbike, then you reall can't expect to be riding motorbikes forever.

Tragic for all involved.

Achooblessyou · 05/09/2014 10:28

People are fallible, they make mistakes. The rules of the road minimise the damage caused by those mistakes. The car driver might have been charged with careless driving but the bikers driving was downright dangerous - sadly to himself.

"If you regularly ride a bike at 100mph you can't expect to live long"

Absolutely.