To report friend to FB for photo of her blacked up?

[Greyhound]

I'm really shocked - cousin of mine has pic of herself on Facebook blacked up. She is white. The picture is of her at a fancy dress party - she has covered her face in dark brown stage make up and is wearing an "Afro" wig and Rastafarian style striped hat.

Her husband is also blacked up.

I worked for a large law firm that had a reputation for discrimination against women. There were only a few female partners and the general feeling was that, should a female member of staff have a baby, she could wave goodbye to promotion.

I worked for a male senior partner and got pregnant. He could barely disguise his annoyance and just offered a curt "Congratulations".

Sadly, I had a miscarriage. After I returned to work, this man made my life hell. He nitpicked, shouted at me daily, overloaded me with work that I couldn't possibly complete in the time he gave. It was hellish.

I left in the end. I just couldn't stay in those circumstances. All the complaints I made to HR fell on deaf ears.

I sincerely believe he bullied me out of my job because he thought I would eventually leave to have a baby but, of course, it was impossible to prove this.

I worked for the NHS and had a similar experience. Very happy in my job for several years- got pregnant and then was subjected to some awful bullying by my boss, who made it very clear that this would continue if i returned to work after my daughter was born. I was made redundant during maternity leave and someone new was hired to fill my old post within 4 months. I was too stressed and depressed to challenge it at the time but I really regret that now. I am absolutely certain that if I had taken this to tribunal I would have won.

I remember MN doing a thread about discrimination against women in the workplace a while back and being really shocked by how many people seemed unaware of the subtle or insidious ways in which women can be disadvantaged or held back. There were a couple of posters who (like Phaedra) believed that unless an employer had specifically said "I am sacking you because you are pregnant" or "I am paying you less because you are female" then there was not a problem. I would have thought it was pretty obvious that no one would openly fess up these behaviours but that the evidence of women's poor progression into senior positions shows that other more subtle and systemic discriminations are still rife.

Or, as others have pointed out, that fewer women progress into senior positions because they take time out from their careers when they have kids and then maybe don't want the extra stress/responsibility/longer hours when their children are young.

On the socialised as boys point that was mentioned yesterday. What exactly do you think it is that influences how our children are 'socialised'? Do you think that perhaps religion/culture have something to do with it?

It makes me very sad, as a mother of sons, to read some of the comments and generalisations that have been made on this thread (and others) about men.

I said you've more than likely suffered it at some point.

Oh wow, really and truly. Please stop telling me what my life has been like /must have been like. Your arrogance about how you know best about everything is breathtaking.

you don't think that the lack of paternity leave/ lack of shared childcare responsibilities or the fact that women are evidenced to carry much more of the domestic burden- even if they are working full time has anything to do with women compromising their careers?

MrsWhiskers I know several women who in addition to working part -time negotiated deals that they took the entire school summer holidays off. They are not partners. No doubt Buffy will argue that is because they are women.

I would suggest that it would be better if women and men were both able to negotiate taking half the summer holidays off each so that if there were any impact onto their career progression, it would be shared equally amongst both adults in the family.

TheHissing. Men and women can share paternity leave AND child care AND (as I've seen pointed out on many other threads in relationships and elsewhere) you don't have to do the bulk of the housework just because you're a woman! Women deciding to take long maternity leaves/return to work part time etc will undoubtedly compromise their careers but in many (dare I say most) cases it is by choice.

Lack of paternity leave ? Oh please spare me. We are currently rearranging work to accommodate a new father who is taking his wife's maximum maternity leave as she wants to go back to being a doctor as soon as possible.

And as for" lack of shared child care responsibilities" that's up to the parents involved and has damn all to do with employers. If a woman can't make the father of her child carry his weight why on earth is that her employer's responsibility or problem?

TheHissing, everyone is entitled to request flexible working now so people can do that if they want to.

but there is a cultural expectation that it should be the woman doing it.

Phaedra, do your personal experiences in your law firm mean that discrimination against women in the workplace doesn't exist anywhere?

What about the employers that openly admit they don't take on women "of child-bearing age' ? That is discrimination against women, is it not?

You have a very "I'm all right Jack" attitude to this, and seem able to happily ignore many women's lived experience.

Buffy you specifically stated you've more than likely suffered it at some point
No I haven't.

Buffy, why are you linking me to a wiki page on socialisation? Do you understand the point I'm making? Where do you think societal beliefs/opinions come from?

"I'd wonder though, why is it that fathers don't do so in anything like the same numbers? Why fathers don't seem to be taking advantage of the new rules around paternity leave? Etc."

Maybe because the mothers want to stay at home with their children?

I know quite a few women who, before they went on maternity leave, said that they wanted to get back to work ASAP and then, once the baby was born, they didn't want to leave him or her and took the max maternity leave they could.

Sabrinna if we didn't take on women of child bearing age we'd lose probably half our qualified staff. More in fact as we currently have more female than male. So would most firms. There are actually more women entering the profession than men.

And perhaps it has escaped your notice but maternity leave can be shared . We had a father take 3 months, he and his wife are expecting their second and it is likely he will take the maximum he can as his wife prefers to go back sooner.

Maybe because the mothers want to stay at home with their children

MrsW, almost certainly but they can't expect the workplace to stand still waiting for them.

Do you think we could talk about things more generally - we don't all just want to talk about your workplace, you know phaedra.

I'll ask again:

Phaedra, do your personal experiences in your law firm mean that discrimination against women in the workplace doesn't exist anywhere?

but there is a cultural expectation that it should be the woman doing

Whose cultural expectations? This is entirely a matter for the parents concerned to sort out. If a woman can't make her partner do his share that is nothing to do with her employers.

That is just not true. there are huge influences on families that come from societal expectation. Perhaps in your firm the numbers of men and women taking maternity/paternity leave are equal but that is not true across the board (AT ALL). And where does the pressure come from? everywhere. From within the family- MIL/FIL/grandparents/friends. From colleagues and working culture- the idea that you are going to be sidelined if you are taking leave/thought of of not taking your work seriously. From expectations of men/masculinity- this is women's work. The law has changed but practices have not changed with it yet- which is why we need feminism.