seriously want other people's views: did I totally screw up ?

[atticusfinchatemybaby]

This is really eating me up so I need to hear it straight from MNers. Bust up with friend and I just want to know if it was my fault or not (either way, things won't change but I want to know if I was an arse). Sorry this is long but I want to give all the details so the picture is accurate.

Long story short, colleague/friend has massive fertility problems, been having IVF for years. Not going well. A few months ago she finally got pregnant through egg donation. A few weeks earlier I had conceived my second child (naturally, super fast conception just like my first, no real stage of "trying" or planning).

I knew all the details of what was happening at every stage of her TTC. I asked her a lot about it (was trying to be supportive, but I realise now maybe I was being a bit intrusive too, which I massively regret, partly as I was curious about all the miraculous procedures).

My dilemma was, should I tell her I was pregnant? And if so, when exactly? She had said loads of times how hard it is for her to hear about friends' pregnancies, how she dreaded someone in our office getting pregnant, how she'd fallen out with so many friends who were insensitive, etc. At the time I started TTC (and immediatley did conceive) I knew she was about to have a shot at egg donation, and this was really make-or-break time for them. I didn't know what to do. I really wanted to do the right thing by her. The egg donation procedure looked very hopeful, so, I concluded the best thing was not to tell her until she had some good news going.

The process went well, she got pregnant after three years of trying everything. At that point I nearly told her my news too, so we could share our pregnancies together. But something told me to wait until we'd both got a bit further along. I was terrified I'd tell her "guess what, I'm pregnant!" and she'd miscarry the next day. So I kept quiet. And fate being what it is, she miscarried at 8 weeks. I couldn't believe how unfair life was being for her, it was awful. I honestly felt like, if someone had given me a choice, I would have had the miscarriage for her at that point and given up my own baby (knowing how easy it would be for me to conceive again, compared to her troubles). Obviously, at this point I didn't tell her I was pregnant.

Immediately after that we were both on leave for various periods of time so I didn't see her again until last week, when we had been apart for about a month. As I'm starting to show now, I knew I had to tell her. I emailed her at the weekend to tell her I was pregnant, that I knew that kind of news was hard for her, and that I really hoped things would work out for her and her husband v. soon.

Her reaction (to the email, and later in person) was that she wasn't upset I was pregnant but that she was furious I hadn't told her before. She said even if she was still pregnant now she would have been furious. She said various things which were v upsetting, all along the lines of I was two-faced, intrusive, a liar, etc.

I was gutted. I didn't respond, except to tell her I was sorry I had upset her so badly and it was the last thing I had wanted to do. I feel like total shit now and it's so uncomfortable at work. She made it clear that our friendship is basically over and I am scum.

I know there is no going back from this point, but I just want to know if this really was my fault. I am devastated that I upset her so much but I kind of think that whatever I had done, whenever I had told her, I would have made her mad.

For what it's worth, we have only recently told anyone about the pregnancy - she was one of the first to know - it wasn't that I had told everyone else and was keeping her in the dark. But I know she feels betrayed because I knew all the details of what was going on with her and she feels like I didn't pay it back, I guess. I just thought that in this situation, a good friend would shut up about their own issues and let all the attention be on her - the happiness excitement for HER pregnancy (at last!) rather than taking attention for myself. I felt like news of my pregnancy would be a distraction for her at such a crucial time.

Was I being unreasonable? Seriously, please tell me if I was. Also, should I try again why I did what I did? I have resisted the urge to send a long email going through all this (I don't think she'll let me have a converation about it) because I feel like whatever I say will just make things worse. But it is going to be awful having this hanging over us for the rest of our working lives.

LadyCordelia, that is a horrible thing to say.

OP I have been your friend in this situation, only I just thought I was miscarrying when my friend revealed she was pregnant and luckily I turned out not to be.

I was happy for my friend and hopefully that came across to her! Anyway we are still friends now and about to pop :)

But while we had also been talking in detail about my treatment, it had been completely at my instigation. If she'd been pushing for more and more and never admitting she was ttc and I had miscarried, then maybe I would've responded less positively (I wouldn't have been right to, but still). I can understand why you were reluctant to tell her but I can also understand why she has reacted badly.

I think you should try one more time to reach out to your friend.

It is very easy when you have fertility issues to spiral down into bitterness. It is not the right thing to do, and it is not the fault of the people around them and nor should they have to put up with it. But when life gives you lemons, sometimes you get sour for a bit :(.

In short: I'm not saying she's right, but if you can eke out a bit more sympathy then that would be a good thing.

I have been in your friends's position - infertility and miscarriages -and I look back now at some of the things I did/said and am horrified. It wasn't me. I was depressed, stressed, even suicidal at times. It can really really mess you up. You couldn't have done right for doing wrong so don't blame yourself. But be the bigger person, apologise like you have and leave the door open for her. One day, when she is out of the hell she is currently in, she will say sorry to you x

I also sometimes think that not being able to get pregnant is natures way of telling you that your body just can't do pregnancy.

Oh really? Fuck you.

OP it's already been said but you were damned whether you did or didn't.

Your friend is going through a hideous time. There is, as usual, an astounding lack of empathy from some posters re infertility and miscarriage. Jealousy, bitterness etc etc. Even a fucking saint would feel tortured watching all and sundry start/grow families while they have nada. It's soul destroyingly sad. Some people are just better and presenting themselves outwardly in the face of this. A poster above was spot on re the very 'ugly' emotions.

Unfortunately you're bearing the brunt of your friend's anger. Crap. But far crapper would be being in her boat.

If I were you I would reply telling her you get it. And you're sorry about it all. And you'll be there if/when she is ready. It's all you can do.

I have been your friend.

It's hard to express how being infertile feels. It sounds trite or melodramatic to try to put it into words. But it becomes all-consuming. Your entire life, and that of your DH/DP's, narrowed down to waiting for the next test, the next appointment, the next disappointment. And the longer it goes on, the more people around you start families and get pregnant seemingly at the first glance of a penis. Yet here you are, still failing to manage that one thing that everyone else seems to find so easy. You're a failure. You start to have stupid thoughts, like there are a finite number of potential babies and everyone else who gets pregnant means it's less likely you will. Sometimes it seems like the whole world is pregnant apart from you.

So you have a couple of friends you confide in. And while you know that they care, and they're interested, over time that becomes a pressure in itself. Because every BFN, every failed IVF cycle is letting them down too. Sometimes you wish they'd fuck off with their compassion and their questions and their positivity because it just reminds you that you're still failing.

And then one of them gets pregnant too. But they can't even tell you "normally", like they can their "normal" friends. They feel they have to pussyfoot round you and second-guess your reaction and be oh-so-sensitive, and even while you know they're doing it out of love it's still horrible, to feel that your infertility has become this looming thing that has to be "handled", that your failure has had an impact on what should be their happy time. And you feel "other", that you've become this fragile person who will be upset by news of a friend's pregnancy. What kind of awful person resents a friend's pregnancy? You hate yourself for not being able to be simply happy for her - and you are happy for her. It's just countered by guilt and pain and rage and grief and self-loathing and the most unbelievable, unimaginable purest fucking jealousy.

And yes, you know all this is irrational and selfish but it doesn't make it any less real. It doesn't make the urge to lash out, to scream at the unfairness of it all, any less powerful.

Atticus, you sound like a genuinely lovely person. I'm sorry for you that your friend has lashed out for real and you have ended up the target. PPs who said "you can't do right for doing wrong" are absolutely right. That will probably continue throughout your pregnancy, tbh - if you keep quiet about it, you're "treating her with kid gloves"; if you talk about it you'll be "flaunting it". It's unfair and I don't envy you. I don't entirely blame your friend either. I hope this has given a glimpse into what she may be going through, the unspoken hellish bits that only someone who has experienced infertility truly understands. I hope in time she finds her way through the fog to recognise you were acting as you did out of compassion and friendship, and that you manage to salvage something of your friendship.

And congratulations on your pregnancy (sincerely).

So you have a couple of friends you confide in. And while you know that they care, and they're interested, over time that becomes a pressure in itself. Because every BFN, every failed IVF cycle is letting them down too. Sometimes you wish they'd fuck off with their compassion and their questions and their positivity because it just reminds you that you're still failing.

This. Absolutely this. A lovely friend of mine took a very keen interest in my miscarriages, operations, TTC etc etc. It actually became intrusive. When I first got pregnant, she said 'At last!' which made me feel like she'd been keeping tabs on how many months it had taken and how hard it was for me. When I lost that baby, every phone call for six months began with, 'So how are you?' She just wanted to hear about pregnancy related things- never wanted to talk about herself. She may have seen that as being selfless, but I felt like I was an unwilling source of fascination. If I started with something other than pregnancy stuff, however positive, she'd then ask, 'any good news?' She then told me at 12 weeks about her own two pregnancies. I was upset because she'd been TTC but didn't tell me, yet expected to be told when I was trying again and had wanted to to know all of the ins and outs.

I only told her and one other friend, but regretted it because their continued interest meant they kept reminding me of it when I didn't want to be reminded. So perhaps you feel you have been supportive and interested, but have unintentionally created more pressure on her.

I don't think it would have mattered when you told her, she still probably would have reacted like this.

You've been sensitive and thoughtful but she won't see that while she's hurting.

Agree with those who say you did nothing wrong.

Cordelia - your comment is horrific.

I've been in both situations. I had multiple miscarriages and was v hurt when a friend kept asking me about it - she was pretending to be concerned but was, in fact, just trying to reassure herself as she was actually pregnant herself but hadn't told me.

When I finally had a successful pregnancy, my best friend dropped me because she kept miscarrying and being around me was too much for her.

I also sometimes think that not being able to get pregnant is natures way of telling you that your body just can't do pregnancy.

What a fucking disgusting untrue thing to say.

So in your opinion I'm not becoming pregnant after years of ttc because my body just can't do pregnancy How the fuck do you explain how I've had 3 successful, very easily conceived previous pregnancies then.

I've got PCOS and have 3 perfectly healthy children - the first 2 through fertility treatment. I don't think Cordelia's comment is disgusting but purely misguided. I was unable to conceive naturally in my 20's and 30's but suddenly (and strangely) became fertile in my 40's. People may need different levels of fertility intervention at different point in their lives to get and stay pregnant. Is she suggesting that if the fertility treatment works then the person was "supposed" to have a baby and if it doesn't then they weren't? What then as infertility treatment improves and those who previously couldn't conceive with treatment, then do? Are more people simply "supposed" to get pregnant? Her statement makes no sense unless she doesn't believe in fertility treatment at all and thinks that only those conceiving naturally are "supposed" to get pregnant. Having said this, I know this was simply a throw away comment, but misguided none the less.

Your friend is hurting and struggling to come to terms with her own situation. I am sure you did what you thought was best. For now keep back. If you do contact her just a handwritten note to say you're always there for her. Let time go by and be open to any overtures she makes.

And congratulations btw.

Hey Atticus, I hope you're feeling ok today.

I think you've by now realised that none of this was your doing, you were not at fault in any way. Your friend will have to come to terms with her loss in her own way. You need to concentrate on enjoying your own pregnancy and making sure that you are happy and healthy throughout.

Stress isn't good for you and endlessly replaying what happened is counterproductive.

If it were me, I would extend friendship just once more, in a non-intrusive way, and then leave it. Put it on ice until your baby is born. You do not have to take on your friend's misery and there's no reason for you to don sackcloth and ashes, none at all.

Wishing you well.