seriously want other people's views: did I totally screw up ?

[atticusfinchatemybaby]

This is really eating me up so I need to hear it straight from MNers. Bust up with friend and I just want to know if it was my fault or not (either way, things won't change but I want to know if I was an arse). Sorry this is long but I want to give all the details so the picture is accurate.

Long story short, colleague/friend has massive fertility problems, been having IVF for years. Not going well. A few months ago she finally got pregnant through egg donation. A few weeks earlier I had conceived my second child (naturally, super fast conception just like my first, no real stage of "trying" or planning).

I knew all the details of what was happening at every stage of her TTC. I asked her a lot about it (was trying to be supportive, but I realise now maybe I was being a bit intrusive too, which I massively regret, partly as I was curious about all the miraculous procedures).

My dilemma was, should I tell her I was pregnant? And if so, when exactly? She had said loads of times how hard it is for her to hear about friends' pregnancies, how she dreaded someone in our office getting pregnant, how she'd fallen out with so many friends who were insensitive, etc. At the time I started TTC (and immediatley did conceive) I knew she was about to have a shot at egg donation, and this was really make-or-break time for them. I didn't know what to do. I really wanted to do the right thing by her. The egg donation procedure looked very hopeful, so, I concluded the best thing was not to tell her until she had some good news going.

The process went well, she got pregnant after three years of trying everything. At that point I nearly told her my news too, so we could share our pregnancies together. But something told me to wait until we'd both got a bit further along. I was terrified I'd tell her "guess what, I'm pregnant!" and she'd miscarry the next day. So I kept quiet. And fate being what it is, she miscarried at 8 weeks. I couldn't believe how unfair life was being for her, it was awful. I honestly felt like, if someone had given me a choice, I would have had the miscarriage for her at that point and given up my own baby (knowing how easy it would be for me to conceive again, compared to her troubles). Obviously, at this point I didn't tell her I was pregnant.

Immediately after that we were both on leave for various periods of time so I didn't see her again until last week, when we had been apart for about a month. As I'm starting to show now, I knew I had to tell her. I emailed her at the weekend to tell her I was pregnant, that I knew that kind of news was hard for her, and that I really hoped things would work out for her and her husband v. soon.

Her reaction (to the email, and later in person) was that she wasn't upset I was pregnant but that she was furious I hadn't told her before. She said even if she was still pregnant now she would have been furious. She said various things which were v upsetting, all along the lines of I was two-faced, intrusive, a liar, etc.

I was gutted. I didn't respond, except to tell her I was sorry I had upset her so badly and it was the last thing I had wanted to do. I feel like total shit now and it's so uncomfortable at work. She made it clear that our friendship is basically over and I am scum.

I know there is no going back from this point, but I just want to know if this really was my fault. I am devastated that I upset her so much but I kind of think that whatever I had done, whenever I had told her, I would have made her mad.

For what it's worth, we have only recently told anyone about the pregnancy - she was one of the first to know - it wasn't that I had told everyone else and was keeping her in the dark. But I know she feels betrayed because I knew all the details of what was going on with her and she feels like I didn't pay it back, I guess. I just thought that in this situation, a good friend would shut up about their own issues and let all the attention be on her - the happiness excitement for HER pregnancy (at last!) rather than taking attention for myself. I felt like news of my pregnancy would be a distraction for her at such a crucial time.

Was I being unreasonable? Seriously, please tell me if I was. Also, should I try again why I did what I did? I have resisted the urge to send a long email going through all this (I don't think she'll let me have a converation about it) because I feel like whatever I say will just make things worse. But it is going to be awful having this hanging over us for the rest of our working lives.

I've been in a v similar situation & felt the same as you. Ultimately though there is nothing you could have done to lessen her pain. She is being unreasonable (but understandable) she will obviously be feeling distraught but she is unreasonable to so publicly make you the focus of her pain. I think you have to take it on the chin, it's not YOU she's upset with it's the situation. I would email her your explanation & be available to her but give her some space. My friend was much better with time and as DS got older. Also her fertility treatment included loads of hormones so totally knocked her for six and her behaviour was very out of character.

Just reply telling her that you did it with the best of intentions and because you care about her. Then leave it. She may be lovely but - for utterly understandable reasons - she has a blind spot here...

Just read your last post, it sounds like it's very out of character for your friend to react like that. Still wrong, but perhaps more forgiveable. Give her a bit of space and go easy on yourself.

She's lashing out because she's so upset over her own loss. This doesn't make her a bad person or not nice, she's grieving and needs time and understanding. All you can do is keep the door open and keep trying with her. Let her know that you're still there for her when she's ready. She would have reacted the same now matter how you handled it because she's grieving.

darceybustle wow. That's painful. If that's what she thinks I was doing (and clearly she does) I'm not surprised she hates me. I can see why it looks that way now, but it was not what I was thinking / doing. I was desperate for things to work out for them, constantly asking her about it because I was hoping she'd have good news, thinking about her all of the time I was away and praying it would be ok. I suppose I should have shut up and not talked to her about it at all - but if I'd done that just when she got to such a critical stage wouldn't that have seemed cruel as well? I know I did the wrong thing, but I really don't know what the right thing would have been.

That's it, Atticus, with HINDSIGHT. None of us has that. It's an awful thing to do, isn't it, rush out with your news just to get it out there? The thing is, EVEN if you'd done just that, your friend would still be lashing out.

There is absolutely NOTHING that you could or should have done differently and I hope that your friend, if she is as you say she is, will have the grace to attempt an apology to you at some point. I don't know you, Atticus but you sound lovely, and I'm sure you would stop her in her tracks from trying to say sorry, but when she does, let her apologise and get closure on that horrible moment, she'll need to do that.

Repeat after me... "I, Atticus, did NOT screw up". Rinse and repeat as many times as it takes for you to believe that.

Now, what are you going to do to put this out of your head? You've been roundly validated. Nobody thinks that you were in the wrong in any way. Your husband agrees. Do I need to come and find you and give you a friendly shake?

You do not need forgiveness, you did nothing wrong. You were tactful and kind and there was no way this wasn't going to become a heinous situation; it's just awful but you were not the cause of it and did not deserve for your friend to unleash her pain on you. The fact that you took it and are still worrying for your friend is a tribute to you and a tribute to your friendship. I'm sure she will realise that when her thoughts move on from her loss. She will need a friend then and she's darned lucky that she has you in her corner.

You're a lovely friend, Atticus, and a thoroughly decent human being...

Geez... how many times can I write, Atticus in ONE post?

Atticus - I also think you have done nothing wrong at all. You sound like a truly lovely friend, but your pal is hurting.

Could you write a letter to her, tailoring it to say basically what you've said in your OP. At least she can read and re-read it at her leisure, and absorb what you're telling her. Much easier than trying to say it all face to face.

Good luck

(And congratulations on your own pregnancy - hope it all goes well)!

You didn't do the wrong thing, not at all. At every single step you did the think you thought was the kindest thing to do. You cannot beat yourself up about that.

If you had told her when she was pregnant - she would most likely be saying that you couldn't even let her have her 5 minutes when she was pregnant.

She is just lashing out and it's so understandable :( I am very sorry you are bearing the brunt of it though.

It's just shit all around :(

No, she is being massively un-reasonable, she's looking for somewhere to appoint blame and she has chosen you. No matter how you had chosen to play this it would've been wrong. In my opinion you should just leave it now. If eventually she comes round she might contact you and you can be as supportive as you wish. If she doesn't then you're probably better off without her in your life.

You haven't done anything wrong. When you announced your pregnancy is completely up to you and especially at work you shouldn't say until you are happy to. I have had friends who gave told me they are pregnant as soon as they find out or tell me they are trying but I didn't tell them or anybody else until 12 weeks and that is absolutely my right. I think she is just very jealous after all she's been through/is going through and is just trying to find a reason to be angry at you. But whilst I feel sorry for her she is being horrible to you and very unprofessional at work.

Op don't think you should have told her initially at all !
I didn't tell anyone except dh before my 12 week scan
Loads of people don't
It's not your fault , stop beating yourself up {{{{{hugs}}}}}}

I cross-posted with you then, Atticus but THERE WAS NO GOOD TIME. If you'd told her then and there and her pregnancy progressed, you would perhaps be worrying that you have 'stolen her thunder'...

She's in pain and unreasonable and lashing out.

'Least said, soonest mended' for now because you cannot hope to know what is going on in HER head. I've lost pregnancies before now and I wouldn't have a clue how SHE feels. It's very personal and she's just going to have to come to terms with it in her own way.

I would make an overture of caring, let her know that you're there - and then completely back off and wait until she's ready to come to you.

Unfortunatly she's taking her grief and anger out on you. I hope she sees in time that she's being rather unreasonable. It could take a while though, she's obviously in a very bad place.

I really don't think you could have done anything differently. You said she was one of the first peopel to know, so it's not as if you kept it from her.

cross-posted with Latte regarding the thunder-stealing.

fwiw I would have shared my news as soon as she shared hers, happy news together. However I do see why you did it the way you did, and I think you come across as very kind and thoughtful

Atticus, I come from the school of thought that you don't pick fights with pregnant women, even unreasonable ones, which you are not, so I'm afraid I am a bit angry at your friend on your behalf.

You sound lovely. Please try to put this out of your mind

I have had two IVF cycles, I'm about to start my third. I am very open about my fertility problems and never kept it a secret.
I am a teacher and last year my TA was a woman that I knew well and got on well with. We were both TTCing, I had had my first failed IVF over the summer. At the very beginning of the year she mentioned that she was due on the next day and she could tell that it hadn't worked this month.
About two weeks later I asked her about her TTCing and she said that she was pregnant, that she hadn't come on when she thought she was going to but didn't know how to tell me.
She had been pregnant before, but it had ended badly. I was so pleased for her and it did hurt but I just had to suck it up.

You didn't screw up, you weren't thoughtless. Seeing people getting pregnant with ease when you have been trying for years is so very hard, but you have to get used to it. It is going to be heartbreaking for her to see you as your pregnancy progresses but there is nothing you can do other than be understanding.

You made a judgement to spare the feeling of your friend. She is grieving. I personally would get in touch again, apologise, and say that you are there as a shoulder to cry on and a listening ear if needs be.

I hope this doesn't sound patronising but infertility is something that is very hard to understand if you have never been through it.
I suggest reading this article www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-28785054 and listening to the radio program www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04d4p0b if you have the time. It puts the thoughts of infertile women so clearly in ways that I find hard to express.
With infertility you don't just want a baby, you want to be a family.

Although I can understand why you kept quiet about your pregnancy, I can see how upset she would be if she had been confiding in you about the early stages of her pregnancy but you kept quiet about your pregnancy. I think (hope) that she will eventually understand that although you may have done the wrong thing (from her point of view), you did it for her benefit.

Poor everyone in this situation. Unfortunately, you did choose to tell her at the wrong time, and that will have felt like a huge betrayal to her. You were in possession of her facts, but she not in possession / knowledge of yours. Then when she has to bear the terrible pain of an IVF failure, your discovered secrecy hurts even more on top.

But the timing of telling her was a difficult choice for you, and it was not a mistake that was devoid of thought. And perhaps this is the thing that could save your friendship if you want it to, in the longer term.

If I was you, I would send flowers and a letter explaining some of what you have said here. That you wanted to tell her, but couldn't find the right time, as you were focussed on where in her journey she was. Tell her that she was one of the first to know.

I don't think she will accept it presently, but she will remember it, and it will leave the door open to picking up the friendship again in happier times.

Best of luck.

Another one who thinks you have done nothing wrong. It is a bloody minefield and I can't see how anyone would know exactly the right way to handle this.With this in mind I think Darcey's post was a bit but hey, everyone has an opinion. I think your friend has treated you quite badly to be honest but obviously, given her circumstances, it is understandable. In time your friend may feel differently about everything and may reach out to you again. You did what you thought was best at the time. All through this you only had your friends best intentions at heart.

I think the problem was that you, over a long period of time, encouraged her to share immensely sensitive and private information about her experience of IVF. She trusted you as a friend. Now she finds that you deliberately withheld information about your own fertility. You did not trust her with that information.
I'm sure that your intentions were good ( the road to hell...) but, unknown to her, the relationship between you became massively unbalanced because it was based on your pity for her. Being on the recieving end of someone's pity is horrible. She was probably trying to deal with a hard situation with as much dignity and maturity as she could handle, and now she may feel that you didn't respect her.
I don't think you deliberately behaved like an arse, but I absolutely understand why she feels betrayed.

Send her a card explaining that your intention was only to support and protect her and that you hope she can eventually forgive your ill-judged decision. Then leave her be.

TBH even this thread has a hint of enjoying the reflected drama of your friend's infertility, which may be something your friend has noticed in RL too.

I don't think you did anything wrong, but when I was in a similar situation to your friend I did not react very gracefully: one friend who'd done successful IVF would not shut up about staying positive, when I was facing the grim possibility it wouldn't work for us, while another delayed telling me about her pregnancy for ages because she thought I'd be upset - I was upset she felt I wouldn't be able to handle the news.

Infertility does make you go a bit mad with rage, shame and general unreasonableness. I was surprised by the strength of my feelings.

Your friend will get through this.

Firstly,congratulations on your pg!i think you've tried to do right thing by your pal
Shes had a tumultuous time to get pg,then unfortunately had mc and is now dealing with that loss
That mc is your explanation for emotional response,and her intensity of response - do try maintain the friendship shelll need a pal.but her dilemma is your pg potentially reminds her,that she isn't pg

She had said loads of times how hard it is for her to hear about friends' pregnancies, how she dreaded someone in our office getting pregnant, how she'd fallen out with so many friends who were insensitive, etc.

I think this sentence is quite telling. No wonder you were stuck between a rock and a hard place.