To think that Islam is not the greatest threat?

[superstarheartbreaker]

Islamist extremists have given the religion a bad name. I am agnostic ( not atheist) btw and yet see religion as a deluded way of controlling the masses.
There has been some terrible Islamic extremism recently such as the recent beheadinds etc but in the past Christianity was just as violent. Northern Ireland for example.

It is religion in general rather than Islam that is a threat to reason and sanity.

so sad for the Christians who had to flee. they had all lived side by side. the article was interesting, thanks

no one is safe there

heart they are following parts of the Quran, they are not following other parts or traditional Islamic law of war, which dictates treating civilians properly

arabella they are indeed like the Nazis as far as people in Iraq and Syria are concerned but the question is whether they are a threat to the UK

red but what IS religion? You are effectively going along with the fundamentalists by saying religion is what's in the holy books. But not everyone agrees with that. Moderates aren't necessarily being untrue to their religion, they just believe that religion evolves, that it is not bound to the values of 2000 years ago. Even the Vatican believes this to some extent as they change Church policies. In the Muslim world you have had reformist movements throughout the ages.

All the holy books are contradictory, there is no way to follow any of them 100%, you have to choose what to prioritise. Extremists prioritise the bad parts but that doesn't mean they are right. The vast majority of people in the world follow the good parts, so why shouldn't the majority define what that religion is?

Mosul used to be Nineveh where Jonah was sent.

Interesting, I didn't know that.

Religion isn't the problem, men using religion to their own violent ends is

I totally agree, and believe that with terrorists of all types, it's not about some perceived slight or even downright injustice (which can all be addressed in other ways) but sheer naked hatred which comes from within

In some sick minds, the hatred comes first; when encouraged and manipulated it festers and grows, consuming the mind until a target has to be found to provide an outlet. Disadvantage, persecution and all the rest may be present, but none would create the appalling acts we see were it not for the hatred itself

Unfortunately, some cultures contain individuals who use indoctrination to harness this hatred for their own ends, eventully creating a climate of fear for all; Muslims are certainly one, but they're by no means alone, and in every such community the potential for violence grows unless checked

"For evil to thrive it's only necessary for good men to do nothing" is as relevant as it ever was. Whatever the risks - whatever the abuse - whatever the political or cultural sensibilities, the hatred must be challenged wherever it's found

YABU.
The whole thing is utterly depressing and I worry about what life will be like for my ds if this isn't stopped.

The message seems to be: be Muslim or die.

What methods will these people stoop up? How many people do they have ready to act over here? Are any of us really safe?
Why have we - as a nation - allowed this to happen? I taught a year 2 boy a few years back. He was extremely bright and articulate. His family were strict Muslims, his father refused to shake my hand or look at me at parents' evening and his mother was not allowed to come. He told me a number of times that he and his family 'hated Christians' 'hated white people.' I relayed this to my head teacher. What happened? Nothing.
If it had been a white child saying they hated Muslims or hated Asian people it would have been marked on their school file for ever more.
He was a lovely little boy too, he did not behave as though he hated white people! But there's no doubt that he was picking it up somewhere and repeating it, from his parents and possibly from the mosque he attended.

How has this tolerance and fear of appearing racist caused this to happen?
I strongly believe that our western way of life is under threat from thugs who appear to live in the Middle Ages.

the Hindus are fearful of Islam as well.

interesting post Butterflies. it is depressing. also if people chose to live here they should try to get along with people in the host country not alienate them.

I'm Jewish and it's an interesting and pretty horrible history. Basically, for a thousand years and more, if you're Jewish, you swing from one genocide or massacre to the next. There are rising fears among my family because of the increase in anti semitism across Europe. I think, in the case of Israel, it has an effect. If you've spent pretty much every single generation for the last ten centuries, at the minimum, being oppressed, slaughtered, tortured, killed or imprisoned, then it's understandable for there to a backlash. Not that it makes Israeli policies right, but they are surrounded by people who want them dead. All of the Middle East, but for them, want them dead, and it's convenient that many of them have enough power to, quite soon in the future, act on that desire.

I agree it isn't Islam itself. Religion has been at the centre of violence since it was invented. It is more dangerous in many ways due to the technology we have around, but I'm sure the Crusaders would have done the same. Every religion has oppressed or killed people at some point imo- whether through genocide and harming people who aren't their religion, or through misogyny or homophobia or whatever as part of their religion. Buddhism, Islam, Christianity, everything. It is a rallying point, a very useful one. It's like with the Scottish Independence, there has been minor violence on both sides, and I don't think that's because of the referendum, it's because there are arseholes and their cause means they have a reason, or allows them to feel good about themselves doing it, whether they realise that or not.

*I'm secular Jewish

The issue is that they see America and the west as the war mongers/terrorists/aggressors. And really, can you blame them? The west created or exacerbated so much of the mess in the middle east. Americans torture and detain people for years without charge (Guantanamo Bay). It is all about money and power and oil.

But a lot of them have been raised in the West!

What's the future going to be like for our DC's? Our world is changing fast and not for the better. I just don't know if there is anything which can be done to stop the extremists and it depresses me constantly at the moment :(

Why does great Britain and America wanna rule the whole world that don't belong to them? They always want the land and it's worth. Africa and its blood diamonds, the Falklands war in the sake of what? To kill not just the people who are occupying the land but our own Britain people, what's so great about that? If our goverements was more concerned about its own land England then we would be doing a lot better!! Why do country's like Scotland, grenade, etc have to fight down England for years to get their independents Back!? When it's rightful theirs in the first place and not England's. And now all it's people wonder why we are under threat all the time. It's this shitty government that causes all this and then blames other people for fight back. I do not agree with Isis it's disgusting what there do but the British army and american armed forces do the same to their people just because it not on camera or rarely made public we think 100% their doing the right thing. Religion is a cover to hide up they sick act just like slavery they bash the bible on black people heads and saids gods says if u don't do what I say then god demands that I gave u a 100 slashes. When will these control freaks stop this shit, never now because they step there foot in this big hole and will never get back out again. the threat of us being attack now at any giving time. who don't have f all to do with there war. If they plan to attack the government then make sure it's government who making ur life's hell and not the innocent people who aren't doing shit. Then u will be making progress in getting something done because they don't care about the every day jo blogs.

Islam...Islam is difficult. Islam is by nature violent, I mean read the Qu'ran's comments on 'idolaters' and non believers who refuse to pay Jizya. However that didn't stop the Umayyad Caliphate from its tolerant and peaceful treatment of its non-Muslim subjects. Likewise Christianity's message is to basically be an ascetic wanderer who donates all his/her income to the poor, but that hasn't stopped the Popes dressing in golden robes with golden maces and whatnot. People make the religion rather than the book, and I don't think Islam is a problem...rather Muslims who have the gall to take their book seriously (which in itself is impossible because of its contradictory nature as pretty much all religious books are contradictory). Religious people in general need to accept the fact that regardless of what their book says, we have a new secular morality we should abide by instead, not an ancient morality developed from a very limited understanding of humans and the world around us.

Strange how the only wars they seem to want to take sides in is when oil or western interests are at stake. Nobody has done anything about Mugabe. If the country had oil it would be a different story. It's all down to money.

Not Islam or religion at all, food (and water and energy) security is the biggest threat but everyone seems oblivious to this.

I think it's the barbaric nature of what IS is doing which is so shocking and sort of hits you slap in the face.

Shooting people, setting bombs etc is crazy but to behead someone with a knife is just uncivilised and barbaric.

Makes me do angry the we aren't hearing from other Islamic nations, Turkey, UAE etc on this, either denouncing them or jumping to get involved.

They stand back whilst the West gets involved giving the terrorists more ammunition against us in their warped minds.

Don't blame it all on our politicians. Where are the clerics and leaders in the muslim communities? They must know who these young men are who are preaching extremism, and why aren't the clerics stopping them? You don't hear any protestations against extemism from the clerics and leaders!! It's high time they started to shout out against it and also tackle these young men in their community.

his father refused to shake my hand or look at me at parents' evening and his mother was not allowed to come. He told me a number of times that he and his family 'hated Christians' 'hated white people.'

Sleepswith, this makes me so angry. How dare these people come and live here and treat us with such contempt.

Radio 4 news had an awful report of Yazidi women being sold into , I was going to say "marriage" , but it's being sold to be raped and forced to convert.

www.skynews.com.au/news/world/mideast/2014/08/30/yazidi-women--sold-into-marriage-.html

I agree with LadyCordelia, if it wasn't religion it would be something else.

If you look at the 20th century, who were the biggest mass murderers? The Nazis, the Soviets, the Chinese Communists, the Khmer Rouge... all secular totalitarian ideologies.

At the end of the day it's all about power and money. People use religion if they can, if not they invent something else.

"Strange how the only wars they seem to want to take sides in is when oil or western interests are at stake. Nobody has done anything about Mugabe. If the country had oil it
would be a different story. It's all
down to money."

Of course governments and countries are going to go after the likes of oil and resources and act as what they see to be in their countries interests. Are people all ready to give up their cars, nice lifestyles etc to make the world a fairer place?

Shrug. It wasn't Muslims who sent my great-grandfather and grandfather's generation off to die in terrible wars and those who survived came back to nothing. The people who say Muslims threaten ' our way of life' have always had a much better standard of living than people like my family who have occasionally been on the receiving end of their crap too. They wouldn't educate us, they wanted us to live in poverty and insecurity, wanted an endless supply of cheap labour so imported immigrants en masse and now they are asking us to save their ass.

I don't think so.

heartisaspade the thread has moved on but to answer your question, yes I know very well about the holocaust, but you cannot keep using that to stop any criticism of Israel or attempt to justify the crimes perpetuated by Israel. Israel does not have a monopoly on suffering and this is not a competition in who suffered the most. Palestinians are human too.

YABU.