To think that Islam is not the greatest threat?

[superstarheartbreaker]

Islamist extremists have given the religion a bad name. I am agnostic ( not atheist) btw and yet see religion as a deluded way of controlling the masses.
There has been some terrible Islamic extremism recently such as the recent beheadinds etc but in the past Christianity was just as violent. Northern Ireland for example.

It is religion in general rather than Islam that is a threat to reason and sanity.

The problem is that religious devotion is bound to values, and will, of course, bleed into politics. Doesn't matter if it's Islam, Judaism or Christianity. I see it at home, where Catholics continue to oppress women, children, homosexuals and non-Catholics in Ireland.

We have some of the most draconian anti-abortion laws in the world, so much so that recently a woman who alleged she had been raped was forced to undergo a CS at 25 weeks gestation rather than terminate when she had asked near the beginning of her pregnancy. Religious leaders threatened our prime minister with excommunication if he didn't pass the legislation they favoured.

I'm sure some of you read about the mass grave found in Galway, remnants of mother and baby home neglect. Mother and baby homes run by religious organisations who received state funding. And not exactly historical, when you consider that the last such home closed down less than 20 years ago.

A powerful and apparently well-funded religious lobby called the Iona institute appears to have the Irish state media by the proverbials. This organisation has on two significant occasions this year, stifled media discussion about gay marriage.

And as an atheist former Anglican, I have suffered both overt and subtle bigotry all my life.

We're not beheading people, but I still remember bombs and violence here, lives continue to be lost and ruined. Our religious authorities just have the sense to shut up about the horrors they inflict in the name of religion on social media.

Yes and no, Happy. Mainly, I think it is very sad, because it shows how little education there is in a mainstream media that insists on telling those who interact with it enough to scare them but not enough to inform them.

I'm serious about that.

The term "medieval" is just all wrong, and I just don't have the time or energy to explain why. Also, the anger (indicated by swearing) suggests a feeling of incomprehension. It suggests you think they are irrational, for a start. They aren't. There is a political discourse to this. There are real, political grievances that motivate people.

I am not a sympathiser. I find it all pretty horrific. But I can't imagine my remaining ignorant of the underlying causes is going to do me any good at all.

I just want to feel safe in the Uk and for my dc. I want to practice my religion in peace and have freedom of speech and to enjoy this green and pleasant land.

maybe it is media spin on the bbc but is scarey.

when a journalist is beheaded and people are murdered if they don't accept Islam and the bbc mentions terror threats here. there doesn't seem much reasoning and discussion, you die by the sword.

Yruapita -
At no point did I say it was ok to obliterate Palestinian children.

I simply pointed out the flip side of the argument because the situation in Gaza is so fucking heinous and seemingly unresolvable.
It strikes me as odd that some people think that the experience of mass genocide should somehow make an ethnic group "nicer" and more tolerant. Why should it?

Anyway people are so preoccupied with scaring themselves shitless with events in the mid-East that they are ignoring the very real and present danger of Vladimir Putin's invasion of Ukraine.

Nearly 3000 dead already and nobody seems to give a damn.

Religion isn't the problem. People are the problem.

Angry people needing a rallying point will attach anything that gains them more sympathizers and followers.

To the point in Gaza, you have homes being destroyed and families being murdered. They are recruiting teens, who are easy to control and don't have sound judgement in the best of times, who are angry and want a way to fight back or get revenge.

No one wakes up in the morning thinking they are the bad guys, everyone thinks they are the ones in the right, and the "others" are the enemy.

You talk to people that join any hate group, and they're not joining because they believe in the idea (at first). They join because they feel powerless, need someone to blame, and this is a way to give them back control over their life. If dying for Allah is how they're going to make things right (in their minds) then so be it.

It's always the winning side that gets to define the opposing side as "the bad guys". History is never written by the losing side.

Religion isn't the problem, men using religion to their own violent ends is.

Personally I'm just as worried about the rise of Christian extremism in the US, with so many pig-ignorant and intolerant politicians over there fighting tooth and nail against gay rights, and trying to run women's rights back into the 18th Century. Since American culture has such a huge influence on the rest of the world (the horrendous anti-gay policy of Uganda was the direct result of US politicians and missionaries preaching anti-gay hatred), the further backwards they slide, the further backwards the rest of us are likely to slide too.

ANY religious extremism is incredibly dangerous, and while I fear the growth of Islamic extremism, I fear the rise of Christian extremism too. Both have the potential to impact very negatively on our hard-won rights and freedoms, and the tolerant society we have today.

As CaptChaos says, it's all men in power wanting to push other people around, tread on those with less power than them, and use god as an excuse. It's angry young men who have been socialised in such a way that violence is the only means they're allowed to use to express their emotions. And it's old white heterosexual men who feel their grip on the top is slipping and are lashing out in fear at the non-old-white-heterosexual men who would like to share the power with them.

It is, and always is extremism of any form. And extremism feeds off poverty and disenfranchisement. They are the greatest threats.

Most of the young men in Isis have obviously not even read the koran, because their actions are totally contrary to the teachings of Islam.

I think the whole situation - which has come from hundreds of years of shifting powers and wars - in which we stuck out beaks in and the world wars (particularly israel ) and the cold wars where russia and us provided weapons to groups that allied to them - then the oil and gulf wars came - by meddling we have enemies whether our actions were right or not. in amongst that are historic tribal conflicts that go back generations.

to top it off there are probably whole families of many generations who have been traumatised by the horror around them - ptsd and mh caused by trauma might make people susceptible to radicalisation so it could be self perpetuating where children are growing up witnessing such violence and losses of homes and communities.

it is scary though when people are radicalised in this country - they haven't grown up in fear and yet they go to fight and slaughter innocent people.

It makes me sad, all of it and I wonder how long Israel will be able to continue to exist.
And what will happen if their existence is really threatened.

Religion is an excuse. Intolerant, fundamentalist behaviour is the problem. A different scale, but the same behaviour is evident in lone gunmen rampaging round colleges, animal rights campaigners, anti-abortion campaigners, vigilantes attacking paediatricians... Some of these examples have committed acts of violence contrary to the apparent cause and undermined the efforts of more reasonable campaigners which. former the majority.

Western interventions over many, many years have destabilised the Islamic world making it ripe for terrorists and extremists to exploit.

more accurately described as a complete political ideology. In this respect it is like Communism or Nazism as it seeks to intrude into all aspects of our lives. It is supremacist and cannot exist peacefully with any other viewpoint.
I believe you just described the institutional Roman Catholic Church.

OP, you are being naive, rather than unreasonable.

I also agree with MrsMook on disastrous western interventions. We should be containing, not intervening and radicalising.

The routine anti Catholic postings above show zero knowledge of present day realities. I sentence the writers to three episodes of Father Ted.

Annie what are you talking about lol - apart from a few U.S States, America is one of the most gay countries in the world, & their women are not oppressed. - just sounds like you hate white heterosexual men quite frankly.

Op - YANBU.

& Americans have a great sense of humour :-)

As someone else said above Russia and Vladimir Putin is the far greater threat. The focus on ISIS is a helpful distraction to forget about Ukraine and to get some extremely draconian anti-terror legislation through Parliament in the next few weeks. Stuff similar to the control orders which have been deemed unlawful by the courts. Islamic extremists are an easier bogey man than taking on a massively powerful nuclear power like Russia.

I couldn't agree with you more, YANBU.

I have freely posted this before, but I hate organised religion. Really, really dislike it.

Having said that, I simply do not understsnd why Judaism has traditionally come in for the most hate (e.g. The Holocaust, etc) out of the three big ones. Why?!

To my mind, Christianity (especially Catholicism) and Islam wipe the floor when it comes to forcing people, en mass, to lead utterly benighted lives....

Why does everyone hate the Jews....?

Disclaimer: I realise people have serious, legitimate issue with the way Israel currently conducts its affair, but anti-semitism predates Israel by 1000s of years.

I completely agree Ghoul. Btw Putin has been allying himself with the Russian Orthodox Church to reinvigorate the idea of Russian empire -- plenty of crazy people in that church as well, we just don't hear about them in the daily fail.

I also think it's very ignorant to say Ireland is about politics and ISIS is about religion -- of course ISIS is about politics. It's a direct outgrowth of the wars in Iraq and Syria, it draws upon disaffected and victimised communities, it is funded for political reasons. Its ideology is an extreme version of a political ideology that has been brewing in the Middle East for decades as a result of Western imperialism and Arab dictatorships.

All religious extremists have a lot of similarity, it is just the content of what they say that varies.

The greater visibility of Islamist extremism right now isn't because Islam is any worse, it's because the Muslim world is going through extremely tumultuous times at the moment (no thanks to the West!) which gives extremism a chance to flourish and empowers small armed groups. Whereas historic Christendom (Europe) is largely peaceful. But as pointed out, as soon as you had war in Europe in the Balkans, you had people slaughtering each other in the name of religion again (and it wasn't the Muslims who were the worst).

I think some of the attitudes to Judaism stem from a distrust of being different from the majority and lack of understanding of Jewish beliefs and religious practices - going back hundreds of years. Also some Jewish people providing services, such as money lending, which Christianity as it was practised then frowned upon. This reinforced the differences.

Also a lot of Jewish communities have been self-reliant and self-contained, setting up their own schools and businesses serving their own community when they simply didn't exist in the wider community. For some people this is a failure to integrate rather than resourcefulness and self-reliance.

And can we stop with the evil Quran quotes? You know you can find the same things in the Bible, right? Does that make all Christians evil?

Leviticus:
20:9
If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death.

20:13
If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death.

Deuteronomy 7:1-2
When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations . . . then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy.

Ephesians 5:22-24
Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

ISIS are extremely dangerous. Many hardline Muslims do not like the way the way the western world lives. Even more moderate Muslims dislike certain aspects of our lives.