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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to start yet another Indyref thread?

999 replies

FannyFifer · 28/08/2014 19:21

Round 3 folks.

We should arrange an Indyref meet up at this stage. Grin

OP posts:
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deeedeee · 01/09/2014 00:25

I didn't say that there weren't good people voting no. I'm related to some of them. And I didn't 'to say that I was pleases better together weren't campaigning in my area. I was wondering whether that was why I was feeling more optimistic ( ie the area I live in is predominately yes, so is making a yes vote feel likely)

Will you all stop reading negative things into everything I say!

OOAOML · 01/09/2014 00:31

Sorry that post wasn't replying to you. But I am tired and clearly not expressing myself well so I shall go to bed and we can come back to this tomorrow.

OldLadyKnowsSomething · 01/09/2014 01:27

There are mostly good people on both sides. Both sides also have bams. But why does mainstream media, esp the BBC, give so much publicity to the egging incident, and so little to a conviction for issuing death threats against our FM? An attempt to drive him off the road, (potentially involving many more people in a car crash, regardless of how they might vote) the same day Murphy got egged?

I suspect - and nothing more than that - that Murphy fancied a weekend off from largely fruitless campaigning. Salmond and Sillars have carried on campaigning in the face of death threats, Murphy gave up after an egg.

Gotta admire the dedication there.

Toadinthehole · 01/09/2014 05:28

Jim Murphy hasn't given up. He has suspended his tour for 72 hours to take advice on his personal safety. He has even said that it isn't about the eggs, but the intimidation generally at his rallies.

This is about politics, and about stopping people from getting their message across. Rally-wrecking (either by way of eggs, organised mobs or filming private members of the public) does that much better than issuing idiotic threats on Twitter or Facebook (so, for that matter, does issuing veiled threats to academics and business leaders). What was Murphy supposed to do? Stand there like an idiot and continue in hope the deluge of ova would soon be over? If the media have indeed devoted more column inches to it, it's because there is more about it to discuss. By contrast, while I see Alex Salmond has been subjected to death threats - along with all public figures from time to time - the only possibly serious one had bugger all to do with the indyref campaign. Come to think of it, I don't remember the threats to JK Rowling being that big a deal - or at least not for very long.

Not that I want to trivialise this. I have been harassed in my job to the extent that I had to spend time at home with a security guard in a car outside. Not nice. At least I didn't have a dry cleaning bill though.

I agree with this:
"We condemn all forms of abusive, dangerous and offensive behaviour, whether it be Jim Murphy having eggs thrown at him, or Alex Salmond being harassed by a road rage motorist"

... except I would add "intimidating behaviour" too. That is what this is really about.

JimMurphysHump · 01/09/2014 06:17

Are we sure egg throwing man hasn't been reported to the police?

When I spoke to the ERO team they said they would expect folk to be resident in Scotland for 6 months to get a vote. Not 6 months prior to the referendum. They could move here late August and still have a vote provided they plan to stay 6mo. Reading into it further this must be ERO local guidance rather than regulation though.

FannyFifer · 01/09/2014 07:21

Wow, it's this month! Grin

OP posts:
Toadinthehole · 01/09/2014 07:23

A (non political) pinch and a punch.

JimMurphysHump · 01/09/2014 07:32

Can't believe it is this month! Only a couple of days left to register to vote if any of you haven't registered so far.

TheBogQueen · 01/09/2014 07:57

Jim murphy seems to be participating in the new scare tactic. 'Howling mobs' at the polling stations - don't vote it's too dangerous out there etc.

Underpinning this is the idea that Scotland is too wild and unruly to govern itself.

Which is sad.

Celticlass2 · 01/09/2014 08:16

wow it's this month! I can't believe I thought it would definitely be a no! The gap seems to be closing. Could well be a yes, it at least closer than first thought.

As an outsider looking in on this, I have to say I've come to the conclusion that if I was Scottish/ living in Scotland that I would vote for Independence. Lots of reasons for this, and most of them have already been thrashed out on this thread and others.

Interestingly, somebody said up thread that the they think Westminster don't actually want Scotland to stay in the union, but cannot say this publicly!

I think this has more than a ring of truth to it. I also think that The English
Westminster government would get rid of Wales and Northern Ireland in a heartbeat if they could.

Certainly most English people seem to want Scotland to leave the union. If it was an all UK vote, there is no doubt it would be a yes!
Interesting times, and certainly history in the making.
Will be watching with interest.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 01/09/2014 08:20

Has anyone seen the front page of the Herald this morningShock. Blatant scaremongering, and really, really not helpful.

WildThong · 01/09/2014 08:24

Compared to the front page of the Sunday Herald yesterday....every single headline story was unashamedly pro-independence.

Pooka · 01/09/2014 08:26

I'm English and would most definitely not want it to be a yes vote!

Is it really true that most English people would vote yes? No one I know would (and I've spoken to a lot of folk about it).

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 01/09/2014 08:27

The Sunday Herald and the Herald are different newspapers. You really think suggesting there will be violence at polling stations isn't scaremongering?

ArgyMargy · 01/09/2014 08:28

No, that's the most ridiculous thing that anyone has said so far! Why on earth would the rest of the UK want Scotland to leave? I think perhaps we would prefer it if Scotland didn't WANT to leave.

TeamScotland · 01/09/2014 08:41

The Yessers have the bovine vote it seems Grin

to start yet another Indyref thread?
ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 01/09/2014 08:43

There is a view in certain sectors that rUK subsidises Scotland, and pays for its free prescriptions/education etc.

I think polls showed about 60% rUK wanted Scotland to stay in the union.

deeedeee · 01/09/2014 08:59

Shame on the daily record and shame on George Galloway for a blatantly misleading headline.
www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/battered-george-galloway-vows-keep-4138550

There really does seem to be a campaign strategy afoot to demonise the yes campaign and paint it as violent and bullying. Absolutely disgusting

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 01/09/2014 09:01

There really does seem to be a campaign strategy afoot to demonise the yes campaign and paint it as violent and bullying. Absolutely disgusting

Of course there is. This was predicted weeks ago. BT are getting increasingly panicked hence the scare stories and misinformation.

AFewFallenLeaves · 01/09/2014 09:06

CelticLass
I wasn't going to bite any more but:

Most English and Welsh people (living outside of Scotland) I know DO NOT WANT Scotland to leave the Union. They simply didn't want to believe me when I said it could happen and were aghast at the idea.

AFewFallenLeaves · 01/09/2014 09:08

George Galloway _ take no notice.

We all know his beating was related to his actions over Israel.

WildThong · 01/09/2014 09:10

I don't agree with you on anything else deeedeee Smile but I can't stand either the Daily Record or George Galloway - both vile.

Toadinthehole · 01/09/2014 09:21

There's nothing in that Record article suggesting that Galloway was attacked by a Yes supporter. Do you really expect that the Record ought to have made that explicit in its headline?

Honestly.

Anyway. As people have said, there is a perception in the rest of the UK that Scotland is subsidised by the rest of the UK. Likewise, most of the rest of the UK want Scotland to stay. There is nothing contradictory about those two positions. It is simply that continuing the union is best for everyone - both Scotland and the rest of the UK. The economic grounds have been gone over endlessly. Being part of the larger UK gives Scotland easy access to its biggest market, easy movement of people, a stronger credit rating, cheaper access to government borrowing, an economy less given to fluctuation and more protection from imbalances (try living in a small country and see what their economies do), and a degree of control over one of the world's most popular reserve currencies.

Economically, it is simply not a zero-sum game, and I ask those who think it is whether they would want iScotland to be part of Europe only for the pretty cheap reason that Europe would give Scotland more than vice versa.

There is also the shared history and culture; something that has hardly played any part in this decision as far as I can see.

Celticlass2 · 01/09/2014 09:27

AfewfallenLeaves we are obviously speaking to different people and reading different things.
I have read lots of stuff about consigning the union to history, and offloading Wales and NI next not at all pleasant, but nevertheless a point of view that seems fairly typical amongst English voters.

I say English, rather than Welsh and Northern Ireland. I think Scotland leaving the union would make both wales and N Ireland more vulnerable, and in general they are keen to see the union intact. Certainly, in Wales, there is no desire to be an Independant country.

TeamScotland · 01/09/2014 09:27

While I don't condone violence, rape apologist George Galloway being unable to speak is surely no bad thing.

I think Jim Murphy's appearance on sky yesterday going on about the supposed orchestrated intimidation by the Yes campaign was a complete waste of the air time he received. If that is all he has at this stage of the game, that's not good.