to start yet another Indyref thread?

[FannyFifer]

Round 3 folks.

We should arrange an Indyref meet up at this stage.

I certainly wouldn't hold a grudge

I wouldn't either, but plenty of people have espoused views which make Scotland voting for independence sound something akin to being dumped by a really hot redhead! The polls on support for currency union etc show that there is a fair amount of hostility. People are also more nervous about, for example, having money in other countries after the fairly large issues with the Icelandic banks during the crash. I think, actually, the crash in general probably has a considerable influence on how people might think and act - before it banks were safe places where you put your money and it would always be there. Then we suddenly saw that they weren't infallible and although nobody lost money in British banks, the confidence was damaged badly. The fact the two biggest banks had "Scotland" in their name didn't help and their were far too many (not necessarily very bright ) people shouting back then about bailing out the Scots.

Combined with the referendum which inevitable has led to "we pay more than we get" , "no you don't you get more than you pay", "we're propping you up" "no, we're propping you up" "no,..." I don't think some anti Scottish sentiment can really be all that much of a surprise

What do you think of the "Aye" lot saying that post "Naw" there will be repercussions against Scotland?

Lots of quotes from assorted politicians saying it'd mean a cut to the budget here.

Scaremongering from the Yes campaign, or, likely (I'm still wobbling on the fence and getting increasingly hacked off at how difficult it is to find FACTS on which to base my vote)

You don't remember correctly

No, you totally misinterpreted what I was saying, but carry on anyway. I wasn't talking about different regions or municipalities within countries. What I meant was in direct response to comments that we could just call it a bursary and that would get around it as long as we said the fees were the same. I also wasn't talking about overall funding packages.

That's just your opinion really. It has no standing within the current context of higher education funding in the EU.

Well yes, that would be why the phrase started with "I think" - but from the research I have done it is not an uninformed or stupid view. I didn't say my view had standing.

At the same time thousands of English jobs are sacrificed in Portsmouth to bride racist Jocks into voting No.

That statement (I know it isn't your own WildThong) is all kinds of wrong. Use of 'Jocks' and assuming that No voters are racist isn't very good.
I just meant public opinion in the way that it will be the ones looking for contracts who will decide, and not the public.

What do you think of the "Aye" lot saying that post "Naw" there will be repercussions against Scotland?

Well, I don't think it's scaremongering. Of course it won't be as bad as rUK and Scotland going to war or anything on that scale, but WM aren't going to look kindly on Scotland for it. We will almost certainly be hit with cuts to try to align us with rUK, so it's reasonable to assume that free education and prescriptions will be under threat.

Boris Johnson has already made comments saying he would favour it, also saying, for example, there is "no need" for new powers for Scotland. Although he isn't in power, I don't doubt it's a common sentiment amongst some MPs at least. And the ones at the forefront, such as Cameron and Miliband, can't say such things due to their positions, but who knows if they're thinking it or not.

Signing in!

Will have a read. I'm a regular but NC a lot.

Am I missing something? Why would rUK want to punish Scotland for voting No? It's what WM wants.

siiiiiiiiigh

Hope I got the number if "i"s right.

To be fair the comments about the budget are I think following on from a YouGov poll which suggests that there is strong support in England and Wales for cutting the Scottish budget: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-28859522

If you're looking for facts, it might be worth taking a look at the "Wee Blue Book". It is from a pro-Yes source (Wings Over Scotland, about whom I'm not entirely happy ), and is obviously biased, but it contains hyperlinks to the facts and sources cited - so you can check things out for yourself. If you don't want to you don't have to read the content, just scroll down to the bottom of each page for the citation links.

theweebluebook.com/

Ooh careful JimMurphysHump, you'll be accused of being a secret troll from the Facebook Witches Coven cos you're not recognised - welcome!

I can't remember - is the witches coven voting No, Yes, or is it a jolly combination of both? Surely with my suspiciously apt username I should at least be involved just not as the human sacrifice.

First rule of Witches Coven Club is that it's Very Secretive.

I believe it's supposed to be no voters who are in fact Alistair Darling clones, possibly crossbred with Johann Lamont who stalk mumsnet so we can post our establishment views.

I think it's more likely to be a bunch of us sitting around eating cake myself! That's cake, not human sacrifices...unless you bring bad cake. Then all bets are off.

NC all welcome as long as you bring a bottle. I think it was we 'no' folk who stand accused so we might try to brainwash you.

sc now even you are being ridiculous - bad cake indeed. Never heard of such a thing.

I'll bring good cake! Can't promise it won't have wee saltires on the top, but they'll just be butter icing.

(Spiked with Yes fairy dust, obviously).

NCforAye check out Cuckoo Bakery - wee shop in Edinburgh that has wee saltire cupcakes (and union jack ones)! I let them away with it cos the cake is goooooooood.

JimMurphysHump Awesome name.

Numanoid
Your link about shipbuilding was about the last order, that went to the Clyde instead of Portsmouth.
Further ordering has been delayed until October.
There was an outcry in Portsmouth when they lost the last order, and there is just no way the Tory government will give the next one to the Clyde if Scotland leaves the UK.
And quite apart from the votes issue, defence policy is that major ships are only built in the UK. That's why the current building is on the Clyde. If this was not a firm policy issue, the major ships would be ordered from Korea, which can build them cheaper than anywhere in the UK.
If Scotland leaves the UK it will become a foreign country in every respect. I regret that very much, but it can't be denied.

As for a "tradition" of Scottish students staying at home. Please stop perpetuating untrue myths about the Scots being insular

I don't think weatherall is barking up completely the wrong tree on that issue. I taught at Glasgow Uni for 5 years (and still work there in another role) and I did find that all of my classes had quite significant numbers of local students. And many of the people I knew at school stayed at home for at least some of university. Myself included, actually - it wasn't about insularity or not wanting to leave home, it was about money. Everybody I knew also worked while studying.

It's different at postgrad level - much more international. But in the universities around Glasgow, local students do make up a pretty big portion of the demographic.

Stat, I used to live across the road from that cupcake shop! (Well not literally across the road, not with the rbs techys, but within far too little distance)

Possibly the thing that I am looking forward to most once the Referendum is over, is never seeing the patronising words "If you're looking for facts, its worth looking at Wings Over Scotland/The Wee Blue Book".

If I was looking for facts, I'd make damned sure I read some proper, neutral sources.

That has to be way more patronising than the BT advert.

I would actually pay rather a lot of money never to hear those words again, or have someone trying to explain the merits to me of self published ranting abusive fan fiction. It makes Wikipeadia look like a reliable source, and that's saying something!

Numanoid every time i see Jim Murphy's twitter tag I misread it as JimMurphysHump. It is in fact @jimmurphymp

I'm not a member of a secret coven. Well I am, but it's nowt to do with politics.

It's dangerously good isn't it deeedeee!

If I was looking for facts, I'd make damned sure I read some proper, neutral sources

1. The WBB blatantly isn't aimed at folk like you Chelsy

1. Every "fact" in the WBB is referenced so you can go check the "proper, neutral sources" they are derived from and draw your own conclusions.

Just how can supporters of Wings get their target audience so wrong? Do they assume that no one is allowed to work in a job which requires knowledge of the subject? And why would you use it as an information resource? It Ms hardly a complete repository of the full range of viewpoints from across the spectrum. You would do better simply using google if you were lacking information.

I'm in Aberdeen today with work. The property market has gone very quiet because of redundancies and very little new recruiting.