to start yet another Indyref thread?

[FannyFifer]

Round 3 folks.

We should arrange an Indyref meet up at this stage.

just realised that last post was full of typos. Shouldn't try to work and post at the same time!

This will apply with the closure of Faslane too. I worry that these jobs will not be able to be replaced.

weatherall I'm not playing Bingo.

However the point remains that Edinburgh with it's 25% of secondary kids in private schools is nothing like the North of England, or the rest of Central Scotland.

Sixth Form can't be compared sensibly with High School anyway with so many not attending for those final two years.

What is your point IrnBru?

The 'brain drain' from Scotland to London is one of the reasons I'm voting yes.

When I graduated in 2002 it soon dawned on me that all the 'graduate' jobs required me to move to London.

In an independent Scotland more headquarters would be based in Glasgow or Edinburgh so top graduates wouldn't have to leave. It's a waste of Scottish money to be educating so many who leave and never pay tax here.

i think there are a fair number of people who would object to "their money" even being serviced in Scotland in the event of independence.

Why? People happily bank with Santander. Why would a business which gas a successful call centre operation suddenly decide it needs to go south? It's a call centre. It can operate from anywhere.

My husband is self employed in Scitkand and has clients in Australia, the US, England.

He is paid in dollars, euros and sterling.

I don't understand why people think these businesses will throw up their hands in horror and leave scotland

Which Scottish companies don't already have their HQs in Scotland?

I guess I was thinking that in terms of buildings and facilities it would take a bit of effort (that they might not be willing to put in) to move all operations down south, but the cost of doing so may well be a drop in the ocean for big FS companies.

A lot already have presence in London and other UK cities, and quite often have large office buildings within their property investments already.

TheBogQueen it's something that some research has already been done on and there are lots of people who feel that way (no I can't link, sorry, but read some of the comments online and you will see plenty evidence to support it). I think because Scotland would be leaving the UK the situation is somewhat different. Plus Santander kind of evolved to become non-UK through takeovers etc. And it doesn't have "Scotland" in the name!

But I wasn't only talking about the call centres anyway, I was only saying it's a possibility!

Afewfallenleaves- as I explained above 25% of Edinburgh children are not in private schools!

It's a misreading of a statistic skewed by the large number of English and international boarders in Edinburgh schools.

It is an anomaly that is not an argument that that Scotland is as class obsessed as the south especially of England.

As I see it, Santander is a UK company, owned by a foreign bank. Same with HSBC.

So, for rUK customers they would want to bank with a UK bank, which might be owned by a head office in Scotland. One reason they might want to do that is take advantage of the financial services compensation scheme.

For pension firms, there will be risks with different tax and regulation regimes, for rUk customers if they have pensions with a Scottish provider.

The big concern for lots of FS companies will be, though, the question of the overall size of the economy after a Yes vote. . if there is another financial crash will there be a central bank big enough to bail out a company the size of RBS? Probably not. So they will need to base a lot of their operations where most of their customers are based - in rUK

Francois- I work in the voluntary sector and they have their 'national' HQs in London.

After independence they will set up national HQs in Scotland.

But will that offset all the FS companies plus others potentially leaving?

I work for a big (now multinational) company whose operations are all based in Scotland - finance, customer service, the lot. People were always surprised to find that out. It isn't a secret, but people assume it's all based in London.

I've not really been following the details of the debate as I am outside of Scotland and therefore not a voter - have details been given of plans for citizenship if the vote is Yes for those born in Scotland but living elsewhere and those with Scottish parents /grandparents living elsewhere? I've not been able to find anything recent on this via google (but probably don't know where best to look).

But I bank with HBOS which is administered by Lloyds!

I don't follow your point? Everyone is covered by the financial services compensation scheme at the moment. In the case of a Yes vote there would, I assume, be a Scottish specific scheme for people living in Scotland and banking with a Scottish bank.

But the rUK scheme wouldn't cover an English person who deposited money in a Scottish bank. So that bank would need a separate head office in London or wherever so that the bulk of their customers, who live in rUk, could benefit from the scheme. And if that is the case, what would be the advantage to someone like RBS having their Head Office for rUK in Edinburgh? sure, they may well have a Scottish Head Office for their Scottish customers but it wouldn't need to be anything like the size it is now.

In the event of a Yes vote I do hope most of the FS industry does stay, but I can see why a lot of those companies would be concerned.

And that isn't even touching on the currency uncertainty

On the topic of people objecting to their money being serviced in an iScotland, my ds works in a local call centre which covers Yorkshire Bank, and the other day received a very irate message from someone in England that if we say Yes, he's going to close his accounts and move his dosh elsewhere. It wasn't phrased very nicely... Ds replied politely, pointing out that Yorkshire Bank is actually owned by an Australian bank!

However, that's been pretty much the only incident, so I don't think the numbers are overwhelming.

You are failing to see my point was on variation within both the UK and Scotland. My mistake for using a statistic. I don't recognise the England or homogenous English you think you see and you don't see the large private schools in Edinburgh catering for (by and large) Scots. Hey ho I'm bowing out.

Alistair Darling failed to back-up his claim that staying in the UK would create more jobs in Scotland. When Salmond asked for reasons why this would happen, he couldn't answer, which is worrying.

I doubt if he could prove that staying in will create any more jobs in Scotland that the rest of the UK. But with independence there will most certainly be a move of jobs down to the cUK.

I'm told by one prospective employee that FS in Edinburgh are not recruiting until after the referendum. Don't know if this is a general problem though.

As for BAE, they have facilities in Scotland and England. They will build ships wherever the customer wants them to be built. The current major orders were placed on the Clyde for political reasons, and the following orders (which have been delayed until October) will doubtless also be placed for political reasons. It is unthinkable that public opinion in England will allow the orders to be placed in a foreign country instead of Portsmouth. With a very tight general election coming up next year it would be suicide for the Tories.

It is unthinkable that public opinion in England will allow the orders to be placed in a foreign country instead of Portsmouth.

Public opinion doesn't matter though. Articles like this:

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11027008/Scottish-independence-MoD-announces-new-348m-shipbuilding-contract-for-Clyde.html

Show that nothing is certain. As far as I know, the Telegraph hasn't announced its support for either side, and the article is quite balanced.

The talk surrounding how people in rUK will not be happy with Scotland for leaving the Union is confusing, too. If any other country wanted independence and voted in favour of it, I'd be happy for them. I certainly wouldn't hold a grudge.
I don't see rUK as being foreigners (although technically I suppose that would be the case after independence). I definitely don't hold any ill feeling towards them.

ManicMinor

The Scottish Government stance is that the following people will be automatically eligible for Scottish citizenship in the event of a Yes vote:

1. British citizens resident in Scotland.
2. British citizens born in Scotland but currently living outside of Scotland

People with Scottish parents or grandparents (e.g. someone who was born outside of Scotland but is the child or grandchild of someone born in Scotland before independence or resident there at the time of it) can also register as citizens.

www.yesscotland.net/answers/who-will-be-eligible-scottish-citizenship-independence-and-future

See also the chart at the bottom of this page:

www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2013/11/9348/11

I won't be remotely cross with the Scots for voting Yes. It's your country. You must decide.

What would make me cross is if rUK is left with any residual risk after independence. So, I'm against currency union.

However the caveat (made in the links cited) is that it would be down to rUK to decide whether they would allow dual citizenship, but it's likely they would. Discussion on this point somewhere early on in thread 2, I think...

"Because the state paying for only Scottish students would still be discriminatory. If I remember correctly, EU legislation about not discriminating against people from other member states is a lot wider than just "what are tuition fees" and would be really quite hard to get around. Technically at the moment Scottish students tuition fees are funded by the Young Students Bursary or the Independent Students Bursary - but we still pay it for EU students too."

You don't remember correctly. The legislation relates to the fees charged and not to different levels of support offered to students from different backgrounds/communities/municipalities. It is very common for student fees and support to vary between municipalities in, for example, Germany and the Netherlands, and a student coming to study in one municipality from elsewhere in the EU will may benefit from the low fees in one municipality (whereas students from elsewhere in the same country may pay more), but will not receive the same funding package overall.

Obviously students from elsewhere in the EU pay tuition fees at the same rate as students from Scotland, but at the moment they don't benefit from the same funding package overall. They aren't entitled to student loans and grants for maintenance, and nor are they eligible to apply for hardship funds or childcare funds that are open to Scottish students. This isn't discrimination under EU law.

"I think bursaries which are given out by, for example, charitable organisations can be discriminatory. But when you get to the position where the state is funding those on a mass scale it's a lot harder to claim it's non discriminatory." That's just your opinion really. It has no standing within the current context of higher education funding in the EU.

public opinion doesn't matter though
It will matter to the UK government when the parties are trying to gets vote for the next election.

Scrolling down the linked Telegraph article, this is an example of the kind of comments I feel we will be hearing more of.

HonkyFronky • 16 days ago
At the same time thousands of English jobs are sacrificed in Portsmouth to bride racist Jocks into voting No.
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