to start yet another Indyref thread?

[FannyFifer]

Round 3 folks.

We should arrange an Indyref meet up at this stage.

I know people in the industry who have voted UKIP as they see the EU not Westminster as the problem.

This is another reason I want independence - UKIP would have no place in an independent Scotland. Their rise in popularity is scary. :(

UKIP would have no place in an independent Scotland

I wish this was true, but I don't think it is. We elected a UKIP MEP. OK, they might not be called UKIP if we were independent but those views and the people who voted for them aren't going to go away.

There is an issue with Scots going to English universities. I know when I had my interview at Oxford there was very little understanding of how the Scottish education system worked, the different curriculum and the different level s of exams. I think it was Oxford but I remember at least one university was asking for a number of highers that made it clear they were assuming highest were equal to GCSEs which is obviously wrong.

I do agree with Chelsy though, I think that whether or not a child goes away to uni is based on family finances rather than some sort of Scottish timidity.

Those UKIP voters are Scottish Numanoid.

I'm sure an iScotland would have a UKIP or similar party and that's fine. In a democracy you need to represent the full range of views, even the fringe ones. I doubt UKIP or similar would ever run the country, but if they did it would be the democratic will of the Scottish people, not being forced on is by the votes of SE England.

Why is one organisation charged? Have they said it's because they are Scottish?

If you're unsure please don't vote yes. It can't be undone - unlike current governments. A large minority of the Scottish electorate removed from uk because some of the scottish electorate believe in self-determination, despite the undoubted costs, or because of a belief that an independent Scotland would be fairer and/or more prosperous and despite Scottish people living outside Scotland not getting a vote, like the rUk electorate....... what would be fair and just about that?

Oh I had to explain what a standard grade was to one of my interviewers ItsAllGoingToBeFine, but they got their little heads around it and made an unconditional offer on highers. Mind, they're probably confused all over again thanks to CfE!

It was finances that stopped me going - not tuition fees but the rest of it. By that point I'd been homeless and was living in a council flat of my own and the college I was accepted to was one where you had to live on campus. I couldn't afford to run two properties, couldn't live out in Oxford...didn't compute. But that wasn't an opportunity I was denied because I was Scottish. Interestingly of those who interviewed with me most of those who got in were state school pupils not from the south of england - the head girl of a prestigious independent didn't get in.

If you're unsure please don't vote yes.

Its a gamble with massive uncertainty either way. Need to decide if want uncertainties handled by Scottish Government or WM.

A large minority of the Scottish electorate removed from uk because some of the scottish electorate believe in self-determination, despite the undoubted costs, or because of a belief that an independent Scotland would be fairer and/or more prosperous and despite Scottish people living outside Scotland not getting a vote, like the rUk electorate....... what would be fair and just about that?

It is fair and just because the majority of the population had voted for independence.

I know there is the possibility of a similar party popping up in iScotland, and Coburn did get enough votes to unfortunately be an MEP for Scotland. But their main electorate isn't up here so they probably wouldn't have as much success.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think any country should have to put up with UKIP!

Itsallgoingtobefine: that's being a bit blase about the relative disruption between:

1. The normal rate of change experienced under a stable government system.

1. Massive changes wrought by negotiations and reorganisation for independence!

If you're unsure please don't vote yes.

I wouldn't say that. If you're unsure, have a look at what's being said and make your own mind up. :)

Itsallgoingtobefine: that's being a bit blase about the relative disruption

I would argue you are wrong on two counts

1. This referendum is not about what happens in the immediate future. Need to have a longer view.

1. It is looking increasingly likely that in the event of a No vote there will be immediate big changes such as the drastic cutting/removal of the Barnett based block grants.

"We're talking a school of 240 with 26 spaces in asc, another of 400 with 40, 450 with 50 etc - all in quite expensive areas where employment is high and there is massive demand."

I suppose that's the downside to living in the Edinburgh area then...you aren't getting good services for the amount of council tax you are paying..

I am very fortunate that the area of Scotland I live in, there is plenty good services especially with regards to wrap around care, lots of spaces for breakfast club and after school clubs, etc. It's not even an issue, tbh. You're making me glad I don't raise a family in Edinburgh!! That must be a nightmare.

1. The immediate future is pretty darned important - events which happen over the course of a couple of years can have an impact for generations. Looks at the impact of mine closures etc. What would the impact be on regions which are dominated by industries who are likely to shift post independence?

2. Barnett - nobody really knows what will happen, it's true. But will any changes made to Barnett actually leave us worse off than we will be under independence with the economics as badly laid out as they are. I doubt it, I really do. As a whole businesses don't like uncertainty (especially financial ones, uncertainty kills them financially) and at the moment that's the one thing that independence definitely does promise.

" I guess I don't see Scotland as the dreadful place you see sconequeen"

If you're wealthy it is hard to see all the poverty around you because you don't socialise with others who are less well off...

m.youtube.com/watch?v=lbxLZzzDDws

I love the powerfull response that awful better together advert is getting .

If you're unsure please don't vote yes

I'm not sure it behooves anyone to beg others to vote in a particular way. I'm not sure I see how a plea like that benefits anyone.

If you're unsure, then I'd think that you'd want to keep on debating and discussing the issues, and keep on researching the facts at hand. Not to just throw in the towel and say - oh well, thinking about this is hard - I'm not sure so I'll just vote no. Although that was the takeaway message from the Better Together ad!

I thought it was telling that David Cameron came up here and done his speech in the Hilton when people on both sides are engaging at a grassroots level, filling sports centres and town halls to hear discussions and meetings.

It's very telling. Hilton vs. community halls.....

It's pretty rotten for a lot of families IrnBruTheNoo - funnily enough whilst pre school/nursery places are in demand the shortfall doesn't seem to be as bad as with wraparound. I think it's easier to run a profitable nursery which is open full time compared to even making an after school club break even which means there are more private providers in the pre school space. On site facilities are being squeezed because of the building work to extend the schools to cope with the rising birth rate. I actually know of more people unable to work because of childcare issues with school age children than with babies/tots.

We definitely don't get the services to match the council tax we pay. We do have a half-tram-line though, so that's ok

IrnBru - our bit of Glasgow is just as bad.

Itsallgoingtobefine - I haven't seen much about the Barnett formula being cut. But if it was cut wouldn't that be compensated by additional direct tax raising powers which are likely to be devolved whatever the outcome of the vote?

IrnBru If you're wealthy it is hard to see all the poverty around you because you don't socialise with others who are less well off...

You might want to read my other posts before you accuse me of that.

The immediate future is pretty darned important - events which happen over the course of a couple of years can have an impact for generations.

That's a fair point, but it is the impact for generations part that is important. When I vote I will be voting based on what I think Scotland could be like 25, 50 years down the line.

I suspect the impact on my family in the next few years will be pretty negative whatever the outcome, but this really is bigger picture stuff.