To wonder what kind of idiot teaches a 9-year-old to use an Uzi

[BadLad]

m.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-28948946

A 9-year-old kills her shooting instructor when she loses control of the Uzi he is teaching her to use.

Apparently many (that's right, many) firing ranges have strict rules when teaching children.

Oh well, that's all right then, what was I worried about?

I feel sorry for the little girl, not for the fucking moron who handed her the gun

Same. Although I feel for his family.

But if you are going to lets kids play with guns, I would say a few (or those around them) will get hurt

I feel sorry for the little girl, not for the fucking moron who handed her the gun

It's more the fact that she was given a very high powered gun that only adults with training under their belts should be shooting. She shouldn't have been shooting an uzi.

It's not uncommon for kids to start young using rifles and to be taken hunting with their parents. But those only fire once or twice depending on the gun, and it's hard to accidentally shoot someone next to you.

If I recall correctly my first gun experience was when I was 11 or 12, and it was with a rifle. Our boy scouts over here learn how to shoot rifles at summer camps. The first thing most kids are taught before being handed a gun is gun safety.

I really haven't heard of people using hand guns before they were at least 12-13 over here, though I think the majority is older teen.

I agree a 9 year old should not be given lessons on how to use a gun, but please choose more sensitive words a man has died leaving a family. Idiot is a bit harsh.
It's a dreadful situation. Everyone is a victim. The poor man who died, his family, the little girl who will be traumatised with guilt (even though it was a tragic accident and certainly not her fault) possibly for the rest of her life and indeed her family

People living on farms in remote parts of the uk do generally have guns. The difference is that there are more barriers to getting a licence.

What we don't have is people recreating the 'desert storm' experience by giving 9 year olds a burger and an Uzi.

(Although as I said before, take away the burger and violent, tragic death was part of the desert storm experience).

Boy scouts in my neck of the woods do not learn to shoot rifles at summer camps.

"Guns are not as lethal as the media makes them out to be. You have an 80-95% survival rate if you get shot (unless it's to the head or heart)."

oh that's all right then!

I really can't believe some of the shit I am reading on here. And (some) Americans have the cheek to say it's Arab extremists who represent the biggest threat to the world.

Thats two posts talking about suicides, both implying that gun shot deaths from suicide attempts should be left out of calculations of gun damage.
Suicidal thoughts are relatively normal - the best mental health service in the world will not eliminate them. Suicide attempts are not rare. If you have a gun, an attempt is much more likely to be fatal. Suicide statistics should not be discounted.

I'm not convinced that you have a 95% survival chance if you are shot by an Uzi.

The self defence argument can't really be used to justify people playing with sub machine guns or people playing with guns with no training or the relative ease with which it is possible to obtain a gun in some states in the US.

I think the NRA exploits differences in opinion over levels of gun control to polarise view points and ensure that there is no legislation - because if you let the federal or state government legislate against 9 year olds using sub machine guns or increase back ground checks the next step is no guns.

Apart from one notable and odd exception I don't think anybody on this thread thinks this accident wasn't completely predictable and preventable by simply not giving the girl the gun.

I'm sure this may have already been said but, an Uzi or any other smg/machine pistol is for close protection in a situation where your attackers would be wearing body armour. I would advocate teaching children weapon safety where they are exposed i.e. hunting etc, but any weapon like that doesn't belong on the hands of a civillian let alone a 9yo.

tiki eh? how did I miss your point? You said people collect guns for the same reason girls collect barbie dolls. Given that one is a hunk of plastic little girls use to play tea time and the other is a weapon that can kill you in a split second, no, I do not think they are the bloody same. The fact that so many people do think this, is a huge part of the problem.

I see all the usual NRA talking points are out, namely:

The problem isn't guns, it's mental health
The problem isn't guns, it's the huge drug trade
The problem isn't guns, it's all the criminals
The problem isn't guns, it's people making stupid mistakes

Let's say this is true. Doesn't it beg the question as to why a country so full of mentally ill, drugged out, criminal and stupid people should be allowed easy access to guns? I mean, yes, we could take care of all the mentally ill people and get rid of drugs and crime and teach everyone in the country how to use a gun properly or we could just have less guns out there.

It's easy to say guns aren't terrifying if you haven't had the pleasure of living in a major city overwhelmed by gun violence. Of course they are terrifying. But the people in those cities have to put up with it so that people in nice safe parts of the country can have fun with their guns. How is that fair?

The sad thing is that there is huge room for compromise here, lots of people from both sides are fine with guns that are tightly regulated, but the debate is so polarised it can't happen.

This is a tragedy.

My dc's will learn to shoot when they are older (air rifles).But imo 9 is too young even for air rifles.

I love shooting -I used to belong to a gun club before the laws came in banning hand guns.

Shooting as such isn't a problem imo -its a sport.

Illegal guns and illegal or irresponsible use are a problem.

I am always horrified at the lack of restrictions over shotgun use by farmers in this country.

AuntieStella seems to have overlooked where I stated one that can be handled and even provided examples - nowhere did I advocate a 9 year old with a fully or even semi auto.

Bicycles, killing machines that they are, do have the added bonus of primarily being able to transport one from A to B.

Guns are just killing machines.

And as for this...

" You have an 80-95% survival rate if you get shot (unless it's to the head or heart)."

...it's almost Month Python-esque. You'd laugh, if it wasn't quite so awful.

You know you have an 85% chance of surviving a Great White shark attack of it happens at sea? (unless it uses its teeth when it bites).

"It is perfectly reasonable to believe that in typical usage a bicycle is more dangerous than a gun on a shooting range."

No Aga, it really really isn't.

Do you honestly believe that if you give a 9 year old girl a bicycle with inadequate supervision or an Uzi with inadequate supervision, the chances of her killing someone is equal.

You persist in comparing the risk of the child suffering fatal harm on a bike and causing fatal harm with a gun.

The risk of a child causing a fatal accident with a bike is simply not the same as causing fatal harm with a gun. And there are zero - absolutely zero health benefits from using a gun.

because if you let the federal or state government legislate against 9 year olds using sub machine guns or increase back ground checks the next step is no guns.

It's even more ridiculous than the parody slipper slope Now that black can marry white, we'll all be marrying house pets next.

Shit. Wrong thread. I'm really sorry.

ArmyDad I think the general consensus is that if the enemy is close enough to use an smg, you're pretty buggered, isn't it?

Thats why the wimmin got 'em back in the day...close quarters if all else fails.Totally inaccurate machines I believe, at any sort of longer range.

ArmyDad I think the general consensus is that if the enemy is close enough to use an smg, you're pretty buggered, isn't it?

You're are if the enemy' brandishing a bike.

TwllBach

I think I saw the same programme. I recommend it if it is on iplayer.

There's a home movie section where a 6 year old opens a resent and it is a gun and he tells his dad he is too young.

I have mixed feelings about what I saw on that, a family that puts meat on the table by hunting I could see why they want their child to be able to shoot, to them it was just learning another life skill like cooking or camping.

I imagine if you are brought up on a farm in the UK you probably learn to shoot too.

The thing that I found really shocking was the manufacture of children's guns in pink and blue for 3 year olds.

Guns are not toys.

Butterfliesinmytummy: "I have fired Uzis and the recoil is terrifyingly aggressive, even for an adult, even on manual. I have had firearms training and fire 9mm hand guns at my local range but would never dream of putting any firearm in the hands of a child."

The thing that surprises me about this is why an accident like this hasn't happened before on one of these shooting ranges - if they're in the habit of giving nine-year olds Uzis to fire, then the recoil problem must be very common. Very odd.

tiki eh? how did I miss your point? You said people collect guns for the same reason girls collect barbie dolls. Given that one is a hunk of plastic little girls use to play tea time and the other is a weapon that can kill you in a split second, no, I do not think they are the bloody same. The fact that so many people do think this, is a huge part of the problem.

Good job. You missed it again sweetie.

Ok, I'll spell it out since you're so confused. I'm talking about the reason people collect guns, and you're being rather disingenuous by trying to compare them physically. No where did I say Barbie is like a gun.

Gun collectors collect guns and their accessories because they like collecting and it's fun for them.

Barbie collectors collect Barbies and their accessories because they like collecting and it's fun for them.

Sometimes, in the English language, when we want to illustrate a point, we draw comparisons. It's just one of those advanced literary things people do. :)

It's easy to say guns aren't terrifying if you haven't had the pleasure of living in a major city overwhelmed by gun violence. Of course they are terrifying. But the people in those cities have to put up with it so that people in nice safe parts of the country can have fun with their guns. How is that fair?

No major city is "over whelmed" by gun violence. Washington DC is murder capital of the US (literally). Do you know what their leading cause of death is? Cancer and Heart Disease. Major cities are over whelmed with old sick people and figuring out how to fit everyone in at the hospitals, because they wait until last minute to get treated due to having no insurance.

America isn't like Hollywood movies portray. We don't all have guns we pull out on a hair trigger and have a shoot out over every little thing.

I've been held up at gun point. Yes, it was terrifying because of the person holding the gun, I'd probably have been just as terrified if he was holding a knife. We ended up getting into a fight, I got pistol whipped, and he panicked and ran off when he released his magazine clip (the thing that holds the bullets) instead of turning off the safety. The gun itself was just a gun. Nothing more, nothing less.

Also, people having fun with guns are usually registered and getting them legally. People committing murders are getting them off the black market. Apples and oranges... (and I'm not saying guns are like fruit ).

The thing that surprises me about this is why an accident like this hasn't happened before on one of these shooting ranges - if they're in the habit of giving nine-year olds Uzis to fire, then the recoil problem must be very common. Very odd.

I checked out their (the gun place) facebook page & usually (with kids & adults) the instructor is behind them, supporting them (hand on shoulder of arm that gun is in & almost pushing the person), so they (instructor) push back against the recoil.

From what I saw (and I saw a slightly longer vid, where you saw the gun slam against her chest, pointing sideways) he switched the gun to full auto, and says 'full auto', but before he finishes speaking, she starts firing, so 1] he didn't have time to get back behind her 2] he didn't have time to support her against the recoil

If he had been behind her, I don't think we would be discussing this now.

That is what I saw & my take on it, she fired as soon as he switched it from manual to auto, but he didn't prompt her to wait for him to be able to get into position to support her.

Also, he would have been able to hit the gun back to facing forward (as someone on their page said they did) if she lost control, had he been ready for her to shoot.

She is 9, I guess in the excitement, she just went for it. Bad communication & a kid not understanding the power of guns.

No major city is "over whelmed" by gun violence. Washington DC is murder capital of the US (literally). Do you know what their leading cause of death is? Cancer and Heart Disease.

That's helpful. Neither cancer nor heart disease cause a persons murder, so what is the leading cause of murder?