to be shocked and scandalised that this went on unchecked for so long? [MN edit; contains details of current Rotherham news story, possibly triggering]

[ReputableBiscuit]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-28939089

Mrsheen Race did play a part ...
I think unless you live in/near these areas you have no idea.
Can't be too specific but can say that there is very definitely a fear of rocking the racial boat - scared of being labelled a racist. From a whole range of professionals.

Maybe it isn't ACTUALLY the case - but people in certain positions certainly perceive and believe it is. A genuine belief.
From terrible things like this to minor things like planning permission, housing allocation, voting abnormalities (eg. postal votes for women completed by a male member of the household), parking/driving offences etc.
This is a reality.
I personally know of one instance where someone was just doing their job - one they had done for years. Because they queried something they were labelled as racist and threatened with disciplinary action. It made them more cautious, inclined to turn a blind eye.
Denying fear of being branded racist played a large part (along with other factors) in this is not helping anyone.

i agree Mr Sheen

I dont think its race issue

I think the problem is that they basically held the victims in very low regard, and prioritised attention elsewhere

I also think the fact that the victims were teens, and in the care of SS did not help

The "race issue" argument is waaay to widely totuted by the DM etc and is a red herring

poor poor girls

I think to back up your post MrSheen

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11062758/Scandal-hit-Rotherham-deleted-abuse-files.html

While there is a cultural problem within a certain section of the population (and im not going to use the blanket term Asian as that is too broad a term) that needs to be looked at, this is beginning to stink of corruption.

Does anyone who thinks race didn't play a major part live near/in any of these areas? Northern towns and cities with a large Asian population...
Just curious ...

wow, it gets even more sinister

No, what many are saying is that institutionalised sexism, classism and prejudice against these girls from the authorities is the bigger problem.

This case is about race, very obviously. The key is privilege and relative power.

Establishment figures = privilege.
Catholic clergy = privilege.
Muslims of Pakistani origin in Rotherham, and elsewhere = privilege.

Young children have little power. Laws are created to protect them. Then, suddenly, these laws cannot be enforced - because the people who should be enforcing them are afraid to do so. In each of these cases the reason for the fear is different, but it comes down to the same thing. The people who are charged with policing and enforcing the laws are afraid for their livelihoods, reputations and sometimes lives.

Justice should be blind, but it can't operate if some perpetrators are deemed to be untouchable. We need to get back to the job of protecting victims without being side-tracked by special pleaders of any description. THAT is the real red herring.

unlucky83 has it right.

Fear of being stigmatised as racist is one of the issues here.

Just to be clear, I don't think race wasn't a factor, I just don't believe it was the only factor or even the main factor.

I live in S. Yorks. but not in Rotherham. I am BME (not Pakistani) and not unfamiliar with race issues. I just don't believe for a second that if the men had been white then they would have been banged to rights. There are too many examples of rapes by white men uninvestigated to allow be to believe that.

The officer has been charged is called Daniel Cookson. I'd put money on him not being Pakistani. I think there will be plenty of white men in this balls deep. Why order the destruction of files and evidence if not to save your own neck? Taking a report of rape from a girl who claims the perpetrators were Pakistani or investigating that rape is simply not enough to be considered career ending racism. The police destroyed evidence. Why? What about Pakistani shoplifters or car thieves. Did they have their files destroyed too?

We need to get back to the job of protecting victims without being side-tracked by special pleaders of any description. THAT is the real red herring

Absolutely spot on!!! Criminals will naturally trot out any excuse they can find, especilly when there's a keenness to enable this ... a recent post about living conditions was a classic example

Many such excuses are nothing to do with race, just as abuse isn't restricted to any particular community. In this case, however, race clearly was a factor and will have to be addressed along with all the others - however much some would prefer to brush it aside

I think the fear of appearing racist is a convenient excuse that the police use when it suits them.

Fear of being racist doesn't stop them stopping and searching black youths in far greater numbers than their white counterparts.

Imo the more likely underlying motivation for the cover up is that people in the upper echelons of the police force were actively involved with the sexual abuse.

Saville went to great lengths to cultivate alliances with the police, I expect predators in the Asian community did the same, it's a classic move, get others involved in the crime so that you have something on them and they won't speak out for fear of shooting themselves in the foot.

I think this debate is really useful in analysing this issue. We don't hear this level of debate in the mainstream media which is why despite years, reviews, reports and court cases this abuse continues.

The north wales abuse scandal, the Cleveland scandal didn't feature groups of Asian men but are very similar - vulnerable children and a cover up by the council and other authorities.

I agree Cherri it is useful, and sadly lacking from almost everywhere else

MrSheen Fri 29-Aug-14 11:05:56

Good points and I was thinking along same lines today.

and now massive raids are planned (dmail source) especially in manchester

well i can tell you they have sat back for years watching this abuse, hence why they have a big long list of names they should have investigated

this is still being covered up as of this year

What's becoming obvious is that gang violence is being allowed to flourish. Witness are being intimidated right under the noses of the police.Whole families are victimised. Even when gang members are convicted piddling little sentences are handed out.
It's about time the police and the judiciary started to do their jobs ie protecting the community from criminals.

... and now massive raids are planned (dmail source) especially in manchester

If this happens, I shall be very interested to see the muslim community's reaction to raids and mass arrests

I personally believe that they're "just as appalled as everyone else" though I admit my confidence is thoroughly rattled at the moment. If this really is the case I'm sure there'll be no mass claims of racism/Islamophobia ..... will there???

I saw this earlier tonight. Divisions created between richer and poorer children.

Poorer children being treated as "other" by society (in some cases by teachers) These attitudes run DEEP!

Poorer children being treated as "other" DOES contribute to attitudes leading to serious cases like this.

www.theguardian.com/society/2014/aug/31/inequality-schools-children-poverty-commission?CMP=twt_gu

Not all the girls were poor. Just allowed out to Meadowhall shopping centre on the weekends where they were targeted by young men who happened to be working for organised criminals.

I remember a case from when I was a teenager about girls in care being allowed to parties and then being abused and thinking why are the care homes letting them out at night. I wasn't allowed out so why were they?

Stunned by the Panorama programme.

Me too Unreal. The woman running Risky Business obviously tried damn hard to help those girls but had opposition at every turn.

"Fear of being racist doesn't stop them stopping and searching black youths in far greater numbers than their white counterparts."

I don't think it was so much "fear of being racist" per se--I think it was more a kind of worry that if the racially slanted nature of the case became apparent, then things in Rotherham and other northern towns might "kick off." At the very best, heightened ethnic tensions, and at the worse, race riots.

So you get vague messages to "be discreet" "smooth things over" "don't say things that may start a bunfight" etc. Somewhere along the line, the cases get shelved or forgotten about, and the victims fall between the cracks. I have seen this kind of thing happen before.

We have already had race rights in some northern and midlands towns connected with tensions between white and Mirpuri residents, so concern that dragging the case into the open might cause an explosion was, in some ways, not an unreasonable thing for the police to assume. It might well happen now that the case has finally come to light. There is a lot of barely suppressed rage in Rotherham right now.

I went to university in a northern city near Rotherham.
The student-type accommodation was in the 'Asian' area of town. I lived with 4 girls one year and 2girls 2boys the next. We all experienced an enormous amount of racial abuse from the local Asian youths. To the extent we were scared to walk home alone in the evening.
The abuse from Asian men of all ages was very sexual and very intimidating for females. On one occasion I was approached by around 5 young 'kids' from around 10-14 years old. I was walking alone, and they cornered me- pushed me up against a wall and grabbed my breasts and crotch. I shouted and pushed them off and managed to escape. It was broad daylight and around 2pm on a well- walked path.
The language used by the attackers was absolutely disgusting, racist and reinforced everything that other posters have said about white girls being seen subhuman dirty trash.
I have lived in a few places now, in the uk and abroad and never experienced racism quite like it before or since.

Deborah Orr wrote at the weekend
"Multiculturalism's most miserable miscalculation was that respect would always be mutual."
How right she is. Like a few previous posters I soon learned that there was little point in bringing the attention of any of my bosses to the racism and sexism in the school I taught at in a different northern town.
These ranged from simple things like, "English women don't cook" and "They think because she's blond she's a slag" to much more serious things.
On one occasion in my fairly senior role in the school I had asked a parent to come in to discuss the behaviour of his fourteen year old son. I had with me a young male NQT who was deciding whether to concentrate on the pastoral or academic route in his career. The father refused to speak directly to me, sucked his teeth at me and addressed all his remarks to my "assistant".
I have some sympathy with the police; remember when the failings of some ethnic minority pupils was blamed on racist teachers ? When they looked at the figures they discovered that Sikh pupils were doing very well.