to start a new Scottish Indyref thread?

[FannyFifer]

Round 2 folks, ding ding!

A country cannot strip itself of citizenship. An individual can choose to renege their citizenship or choose one over another if dual citizenship is not allowed by their original country.

deee do you think you're being funny? I'm pregnant with twins and DD1 isn't even two. My DH's job will move to London if there is a yes vote. I'll have to leave my family, my friends and everything I know at a time when I really need help. I don't want to go to London. I want to stay home. So less of the flippant comments, because it's a fucking terrifying reality.

What concerns me most about all of this is that Scotland is now a country deeply divided with even families at bitter odds. Politicians may have made noises about 'working together afterwards' (whatever the vote) but I don't see how that's possible from listening to people on the ground. It looks as if it will be like the aftermath of the Miners' Strike (for those that remember that) - except worse.

Does anyone remember Stoneybridge Town Council? I think people have a fear that Scottish Independence would be like that.

I'm don't live in Scotland, I don't have a vote (although I am 3/4 Scottish) but I can't help feeling I would vote for independence given the choice. I'm not that keen on some aspects of Alex Salmond and the SNP, especially that whole Donald Trump thing, but I can't help thinking that the Scottish Parliament acts more in the best interests of its citizens than Westminster does for the majority of English people.

These televised debates add nothing. Two grown men measuring their dicks.
Pat Kane's a bawbag anaw

cozietoesie, it will be awful. So sad. And nobody will know how it might have been - either way.

Indeed, wildthong

I'm sorry you're scared, must be dreadful being pregnant at the moment if you're scared about this. Your hormones must be all over the place, DOn't envy you. But without wanting to piss you off, don't move then. My DH works for RBS, he's voting yes and if the doom you all predict happens and he has to will find a new job and stay in scotland. A job isn't for life anymore in the UK. It hasn't been since before I was a child.

See, I have some respect for the ideological argument. I'm English, married to a Scot, have lived in Scotland for 10 years. My kids consider themselves Scottish.

The feeling is different up here. It is more egalitarian, arguably less entrepreneurial. I can understand people feeling divorced from England, and from Westminster.

Maybe an independent Scotland would become a thriving independent country. But it's going to be tough. Generations of toughness I reckon. The high earners are going to be taxed to buggery. How else is Scotland going to generate the funds for all its plans? People will leave.

I reckon it'll be 30 years before it reaches any kind of equilibrium.

Obviously it would be political suicide to be honest to this degree, but Salmond could appeal more honestly to people's hearts, instead of this faux-logic which can so easily be shot down.

(Why didn't Darling do that, when Salmond was questioning him about the bedroom tax etc, why didn't he say that this was a decision for the next century or so, and therefore the minutiae of an incumbent government's policies are irrelevant?)

I agree but Westminster refused to pre-negotiate.

Absolutely CK - my patriotism says absolutely yes (and I was absolutely for devolution in 97), but there are so many questions not answered, it makes me worry that Scotland will be a far poorer place financially if there is a yes vote.

You think DH walking out of a job is going to help my hormones?!!!

No a job isn't for life, and I have no idea what your husband's specific role is. But my specific job would probably move, and more importantly so would the majority of remotely similar roles in other firms i.e. it wouldn't be just changing jobs, it would be my profession here which would probably be decimated. I've worked my arse off to get to where I am just now - I've still got further I want to go and I love where I live, but if it's between moving away and continuing to develop professionally or staying here and having to start all over again in an entry level job in a sector I don't want to be in then there's no competition.

Why would Westminster pre-negotiate? That would make their opponents' job easier.

All politicians should learn to think like their opponents (and to be fair to Salmond, I think he does a very good job at it).

So if Scotland voted for independence and all Scottish people kept British passports would we still have joint embassies? If a Scottish person needed consular assistance abroad where would they go - would Scotland have to pay towards British embassies so that their citizens could access consular assistance? ( I presume that there is just a pot of money that covers it taken from all UK countries at the moment)

I think most of Scotland will be jubilant after the vote. Relations with England rUK will improve somewhat and Scotland will get on with the business of being Scotland.

There will be negotiations, agreements, disagreements, resignations, alliances and so on.

Yes or no, the great positive is that at least now we are all talking about the running of our country. Hopefully from now on, whatever the result, we will make sure our politicians work for their money and are accountable in ways they never were before.

SantanaLopez

May I offer a completely genuine and ? I'm sorry you're experiencing so much anxiety.

I think it's late and this is a topic that there are so many strong feelings about. I've been really enjoying this discussion on Mumsnet due to how unacrimonious it's been compared to so many I've had. Let's keep that up!

Aye don't worry Santana the wonderful state of Brigadoon with all it's free for all benefits will make sure you don't starve

A lot of the arguments against independence seem to be like a battered wife being fearful of leaving her husband; fearing a vengeful backlash from the abusive partner, fearing the abusive partner will have all the financial power, fear of failure, knowing it will be better in the long run but knowing there's going to be a period of struggle and hardship.

That is possibly one of the most offensive extensions of the divorce analogy I've read.

CKD yep! Project Fear at work.

The marriage analogy is a bit hackneyed I think.

Oh for heavens' sake. Scotland is now like a battered wife?

But who gets Darling's CDs? Hasn't he heard of Spotify?

nancy75

People living in Scotland wouldn't automatically become Scottish citizens (unless they took up Scottish citizenship as offered). They would basically be British expats. As such, like any British expat, when abroad they could use a British embassy. If people end up with dual citizenship (Scots/British) presumably when abroad they would choose what embassy to go to if in need of one, as I guess people with other types of dual citizenship do already?

Bear in mind that Scottish citizenship would (iirc) be offered to any EU citizen resident in Scotland, so Scottish/British wouldn't be the only combination you'd see!