to start a new Scottish Indyref thread?

[FannyFifer]

Round 2 folks, ding ding!

My friend who moved to Norway with her DH's work got 3 years paid mat leave from the company she worked for. She actually moved home to her family in Scotland for the first year. I don't know the levels of mat pay she received but her job was open for her for that time.

nancy75

Scotland would be a foreign country but people living in it but born before independence would still retain their British (/UK) passports. Citizenship belongs to an individual regardless of the country they live in.

Over time presumably people who wanted to remain in Scotland and also have a vote in elections there would also take on Scottish citizenship (so it would be slowly become a country inhabited by people with dual citizenship).

I agree with you Squoosh. My Scandi friends have been born into a high-taxation society so they are just used to it but it would be a frightening thought for most UK people and I wouldn't trust Westminster politicians to spend the revenue in the same way Scandinavian governments do.

TeamScotland

I know people in this country who have given up on the idea of university or who are lap-dancing their way through but have friends from Denmark, for example, who received Government-funding for their doctorates, even if they studied abroad. The money was taxed but their tuition fees were paid and they had money to live on. That's the kind of society I would like to live in; where young people know they can get a high-standard of education rather than get a place on a Work Programme.

I actually think the rest of the UK has more to fear from Scottish independence because if it happens we will all end up living in a permanent Tory safe seat.

It is possible to lose British citizenship in limited circumstances. One can be stripped for taking up arms against Britain, and I've can renounce it (however, the renunciation has to be accepted by the Government).

That said, Westminster can amend the law whenever it likes. possibly Scotland became dependent Scottish citizenship was introduced people resident in Scotland could elect one or the other. As part of this Westminster could legislate to say those who chose Scottish citizenship would automatically lose their British citizenship. An alternative is that those who take up Scottish citizenship get to keep their British citizenship, but it is hard to see why they should get both.

I'm not sure how much it matters to be honest. Irish citizens in the UK get pretty much the same deal as British citizens as far as I'm aware. I can think of no reason why Scots would be treated differently to the Irish.

It is possible to lose British citizenship in limited circumstances. One can be stripped for taking up arms against Britain, and I've can renounce it (however, the renunciation has to be accepted by the Government).

That said, Westminster can amend the law whenever it likes. possibly Scotland became dependent Scottish citizenship was introduced people resident in Scotland could elect one or the other. As part of this Westminster could legislate to say those who chose Scottish citizenship would automatically lose their British citizenship. An alternative is that those who take up Scottish citizenship get to keep their British citizenship, but it is hard to see why they should get both.

I'm not sure how much it matters to be honest. Irish citizens in the UK get pretty much the same deal as British citizens as far as I'm aware. I can think of no reason why Scots would be treated differently to the Irish.

Bother my phone. I will try again. I meant to say that if Scotland becomes independent it will introduce its own citizenship. Those entitled to take it out would get to choose between Scottish citizenship or British citizenship.

Bother my phone. I will try again. I meant to say that if Scotland becomes independent it will introduce its own citizenship. Those entitled to take it out would get to choose between Scottish citizenship or British citizenship.

Bother my phone. I will try again. I meant to say that if Scotland becomes independent it will introduce its own citizenship. Those entitled to take it out would get to choose between Scottish citizenship or British citizenship.

(Smashes phone)

I watched the debate. Darling was a quivering wreck by the end. Is he the yes votes secret weapon

His berating of Salmond about currency union completely backfired.
I'm not Scottish/ resident in Scotland, and have only skimmed this thread.
I was struck by a post up thread though that talked about having to leave Scotland and friends/ family in the event of a yes vote because of jobs moving south.

Well, If this is the case,( and many have argued that this has been overplayed) then it is no different to what many people have to do anyway, in the modern world if work.

DH's job has meant that we have moved around the Uk, and Ireland over the past 10 years. This is a reality for many people these days. Seems a rather naive reason to vote no!

So Ruk would take consular responsibility for a whole country full of expats with no financial input from Scotland?

I suppose this might well be the case for a couple of generations. I really can't see how the rUK could strip people of their British citizenship, or even that we would want to do that. I assume that, in the early days if independence, most people would have dual citizenship.

If you were referring to me then it is not my only reason for voting no by a long way, I was simply expanding on one point which had been made by another poster. I've posted plenty of information on other threads as to why I think the yes case is weak. But frankly it's a bit off to call those voting no because they fear for their jobs naive, when much of the yes case is predicated on hopes and dreams. Some people choose jobs where moving lots is a likelihood, others go in to sectors or roles where that is less likely.

Toadinthehole

The wonders of technology...!

An alternative is that those who take up Scottish citizenship get to keep their British citizenship, but it is hard to see why they should get both.

But isn't that exactly what people who opt for dual citizenship get?

I know the rUK government could say that a condition of taking Scottish citizenship would be reneging on British citizenship, but that would basically involve them saying "it's ok to be a dual citizen with any other country as long as it's not Scotland". Although I know we can't necessarily count on rUK to go out of their way to be pleasant after a potential "Yes" vote, I think that from a self-interest POV this sort of move would look very bad on an international stage - as well as potentially alienating rUK resident citizens who have family in Scotland.

All that said, if it came to it I would exchange my citizenship in the blink of an eye - and I'm an English lass by birth!

If I am forced to become Scottish I will not renew my passport when it expires. I do not want an alien nationality forced upon me.

Phaedra

You won't be forced to become Scottish. The issue is mainly whether people can choose to be both Scottish and British. The Scottish government have made it very clear that British and EU citizens resident in Scotland will have the option to take on Scottish citizenship, but you can't have citizenship of a place forced on you simply by virtue of living there!

Statistically i have scrolled back, and no it wasn't your post i was referring to. It was Santannas.
I was merely making the point that today no job is safe, and is for life, no matter what sector you are in.

Most of my friends have moved all over for work, both voluntarily and because quite frankly they had to to keep their jobs.
I have just had friend move to Singapore.

I can see both sides of the ref debate, and appreciate it is a complex issue, but i am a bit puzzled as to why people would think their jobs would automatically be protected if the Union was maintained in the event of a no vote[hmmm]

I wouldn't put it past the nats to try it. All will be welcome in their brand new socialist utopia (except those who disagree with them)
It will be academic anyway given that I won't have any money left after being expected to pay for the disaster which will ensue if this happens.

The issue is mainly whether people can choose to be both Scottish and British

But I don't "choose" to be both.

phaedra, I'm sure you'll be able to keep your British nationality.

But I don't "choose" to be both.

Then you're absolutely fine. You remain British and live in Scotland, or leave Scotland, or do whatever you want.

Citizenship is something that is invested in an individual. Scotland becoming independent cannot cause the 5million individuals living in Scotland to be deprived of the citizenship they were born with, and neither can a country "force" citizenship onto people living within it.

(Sorry - the "leave Scotland" bit was not meant to be a dig in any way! I was just acknowledging the fact that a lot of people who are strong "Nos" have said they would move if a "Yes" vote was returned. What I was trying to say is that personal freedoms to possess the citizenship of your choice and to live where you want won't be changed).

There are also people from rUK who say they'll move to Scotland in the event of a Yes vote.

Plus an iScotland would most likely take a very different approach to immigration from Westminster. (As a country with a lot of space Scotland is keen to encourage skilled immigration, which it can't do under current visa laws).