to start a new Scottish Indyref thread?

[FannyFifer]

Round 2 folks, ding ding!

As an outsider, I find it hard to believe from what I've seen and read that anyone can be so certain of an outcome either way that they would be vile to people voting the other way.

I can see a scenario where iScotland would flourish. I can just as easily see a scenario where iScotland's economy would go to hell in a handbasket.

Happy not to have a vote. It's fascinating though.

I don't think anyone is certain of an outcome, it is just that this vote is so incredibly important that sometimes people forget themselves.

I've seen both - people who are determined that the vote will be one way or the other, and people who are just so sure that they are right that they are just plain rude and abusive. What I have found is that the ones I have come across who are the most cocksure are the ones talking the most shite - they're not the well informed people with lots of facts (on either side), they're normally just sharing nonsense!

Amongst my friends and family (most of whom are well travelled and well educated), I can think of a number of committed "Yes" voters eg: my father, retired radiologist, (former South African who also lived 2 years in NZ before coming back to Scotland as he didn't agree with the politics there), 2 lawyers, one sales director with a major telco, 2 highly experienced business people working on an inward investment project, one retired corporate banker, one Risk Manager, one MD of a major landscaping company, one consultant oncology surgeon, 2 GPs and one director of a major educational organisation; amongst the "Don't Knows/Not Saying" there is a education officer at the council, a 17 year old school pupil and one former Project Manager currently "working" as a carer for her dh; and the "No" voters are a corporate banker, an officer in the TA (also working on the Inward Investment project), a catering manager, an admin officer in a primary school, a SAHM former nurse, a retired bigotted primary school headteacher (I can say that - she's my MIL and that is my dh's opinion of her ) and a member of the landed gentry.

I hadn't been sure of the 2 GPs (my neighbours), but the appearance of Yes stickers on their window and cars was a bit of a clue!

Maybe I've just been lucky, but all the discussions I've seen on my fb timeline have all been well mannered and polite. There is one friend with whom, by mutual agreement, the topic is no longer raised (although I know which way she is voting and respect the reasons for it) as she gets uncomfortable with differing opinions and thinks that that means that people don't like her (which she freely acknowledges is a problem personal to her). I've seen more rudeness and nasty aspersions on MN than I have on fb

Twitter is a whole different ballgame - it's like the Wild West in there !

Did anyone catch the better together advert there.
Not patronising in the slightest.

Enlighten me about the Better Together advert.

Please.

link I've not watched but guess this is it

Being a "No" voter is a bit like being gay in the 1950s. If you are in company where you know your companions' views, you relax and "come out" but, otherwise, you stay quiet. I think that there are thousands of "No" voters who are either keeping quiet or pretending to be undecided or "Yes". Some "Yes" people are scary.

Today I carried my birthday gift from my DD, an Union Jack mug, into work. Because of my job we are not allowed any campaign stickers, badges etc but the "Yes" camp have stolen the saltire from the people of the whole of Scotland so I decided to carry my flag. Nothing wrong with that.

There is one long term SNP supporter but we didn't know about anyone else at work, apart from the odd quiet guess. The joy, the sheer joy when my mug seemed to allow every member of staff present (about half) to "come out" and admit their anger and determination to vote "No". There are 20 people where I work, I only know 3 confirmed "Yes" voters, the SNP one plus two who have "Yes" on their Facebook pages.

Such a relief to find out that there are so many of us.

There is one long term SNP supporter but we didn't know about anyone else at work, apart from the odd quiet guess. The joy, the sheer joy when my mug seemed to allow every member of staff present (about half) to "come out" and admit their anger and determination to vote "No".

Aww. That's a lovely story

Re the advert, just watched. It was pretty patronising, but it wasn't all that obvious which side it was for until the end which was surprising.

Yeah I'd agree actually. Not the best, but not the worst political broadcast I've seen either tbh.

Agree re the appropriation of the saltire btw - considering painting them on my nails just to confuse the Yes campaigners

Dear Chelsy,

Going back a bit, but what on earth language do you think Cairngorm is if not Gaelic?

Oh, and have a look at #PatronisingBTLady - might remind you where your feminist principles are, if you didn't manage to engage them while watching the advert.

I hope you aren't implying that No voters are misogynistic.

Apparantly it has Pictish roots and not Gaelic at all, and the neighbouring Monadliath Mountains were a Pictish settlement stronghold. Given, not much is known about the Picts but it is not thought that the spoke Scots Gaelic.

From Wikipedia (sorry!)

"Cairn Gorm (Cairngorm) (Gaelic: An Càrn Gorm, meaning Blue or Green Hill)"

"The Monadhliath Mountains /?mo?n??li??/,[1] or Monadh Liath, are a range of mountains in Scotland. Monadh Liath is Scottish Gaelic, and means "grey mountains"

Pictish is the extinct language, or dialect, spoken by the Picts, the people of northern and central Scotland in the Early Middle Ages. There is virtually no direct attestation of Pictish, short of a limited number of place names and names of people found on monuments and the contemporary records in the area controlled by the Kingdom of the Picts. However, evidence from place names and personal names points to the language being closely related to the Brittonic language spoken prior to Anglo-Saxon settlement in what is now southern Scotland, England and Wales. A minority view held by a few scholars claims that Pictish was at least partially non-Indo-European or that a non-Indo-European and Brittonic language coexisted. Pictish was replaced by Gaelic in the latter centuries of the Pictish period.

LadyCordelia that is an accurate summing up. The Scottish system lacks constitutional checks and balances and instead relies on a co.mittee system (like the former USSR) which can of course be filled with placemen. I have linked a youtube clip of how it treated prof Tomkins, prof of Law at Glasgow Uni when he was giving evidence to it regarding constitutional issues raised by independence, and was prevented from doing so by the SNP chairperson. If you think the televised debate last night was shocking, this is far worse.

Strangely, none of those pro independence supporters seem interested, nor in the way the Scottish Government lets City of Edinburgh Council basically do what it wants. This is,what I mean when I say Westminster might seem relatively benign in comparison.

I do believe the origin of Cairngorm is disputed and is as likely to be Pictish as Gaelic, and that some scholars think the Picts may have come from my he aBasque region, and there is genetic testing being done!

I'm English so I just hope the Scottish people get what they want. I have no real interest either way, it's up to them.

One question only. Can we get rid of the clocks going backwards and forwards? The hideous british summertime?

I'm getting confused with all this talk of politics. I don't even know the name of whassisname - the First Minister - you know - him aff the telly. Please can everybody stop discussing politics and just eat their cereal.