to start a new Scottish Indyref thread?

[FannyFifer]

Round 2 folks, ding ding!

Polling has shown that Scottish people as a whole are much less negative about immigration than people in the rest of the UK.

That's why they voted in sufficient numbers to turn one of their 6 meps into a UKIP mep then?

1/6 is not a whole

Hmmn I know about 5 Yes voters. One is unemployed and spends all her time on the internet and leafleting. tbh since she has never in her entire life had so much as a proper job, I find her comments about how life will be better in an independent Scotland a bit unconvincing. The other 4 are dyed in the wool men in lowish paid jobs, who seem to me to be a bit bitter about it and who have made various mistakes in their lives such as getting criminal convictions or failing their exams or cheating on their ex wives and having to pay aliment. And of course I read comments from like minded friends of theirs.

Oh and I do know one other and he has a reasonably good job, boyfriend of the unemployed lady above, and it seems to me that the cause unites them, although I wish it would stop the fecker coming onto me!

Everyone else I know is either a confirmed No voter, a quiet No supporter or a person who just doesn't want to get involved in the debate at all.

I'm guessing if I moved in the social circles of the 6 Yes supporters that I do know, I would then know more Yes supporters, but I don't like them that much.

Do you think people are being honest about their voting intentions? I've just spoken to a friend here in SE England and mentioned this thread. Her Mum lives in Falkirk and is telling people that she's going to vote Yes but is actually going to vote No. She says it's just easier where she lives to pretend to be one of the "in-crowd". Her biggest issue (shows how diverse this issue can become) is that a Yes win will cause her grandson to move South permanently. He is a soldier who thinks the Scottish Defence Force will be "Mickey Mouse" and he will apply to re-join the r(UK) "British army.

Of course one MEP is a whole person Its!

5 is hardly a representative sample, and I suspect the qualitative analysis is coloured by your own prejudices.

I think a lot of people who don't have any desire to get into heated debates are keeping their opinions to themselves or perhaps smiling and nodding for a quiet life.

Lots of people love the heated debates and the drama of the campaign but many others have no desire for these things. So yes, I think there are a lot of people who aren't being open and honest about the way they intend to vote. Don't blame them.

Of course one MEP is a whole person Its!

1/6 Ukip
5/6 Not UKIP

Therefore, as a whole, the Scottish population are not against immigration enough to vote UKIP.

this is a quick link but I've seen longer reports and info elsewhere. Will try to find. I also know a few folk who have worked on Norway and their conclusion was "ouch" pretty much.

Taxation isn't a straight read across, but from playing with an online calculator it looks like someone earning £10k (converted of course!) would pay considerably more in tax. Here is would be deductions of £245. There, it's the equivalent of £1076. They do have additional deductions etc that can be claimed for which will balance some of that, but still! On £50K it's much closer surprisingly (13.5k in the uk, 14.1 in norway) and that seems to continue.

Gosh, no, I wouldn't make any claim to say my own experience is a representative sample, although I do know quite a lot of people from a variety of places and backgrounds. The impression I get is that Yes supporters are more vocal on social media and make their number seem bigger by doing so. This is entirely my own impression and I'd be really surprised horrified if anyone thought I was presenting it as anything other than that.

Thanks statistically

Chelsy

I said Scots as a whole - that was what ItsAllGoingToBeFine meant. 1 MP out of 6 is still a minority.

Erm, you brought Wings into the thread, not me! I only pointed out that the particular blogger I had linked to had not been so offensive as to warrant distancing...in trying to even things up you come across as defensive. I just don't get what you're defending...you're neither quoting Wings or sharing his vitriol, are you?

Sides, teams, camps, whatever... Still not seeing it. I'll vote, go home, eat my dinner. I don't feel the need to stick up for other no voters - just try and articulate my thoughts and sometimes share others when they've done a better job of that :)

There's a Better Together campaign broadcast on STV at the moment.

Admittedly I've seen a fair amount of anti-immigrant sentiment recently in Edinburgh. I'm on a facebook jobs board (we're recruiting staff at the moment for our new business) and some of the posters there are horrific. One woman who was polish posted looking for work and literally the first response was "go look in Poland" and it continued like that for a long time until a few of us piled in. She'd been here for years and was just looking for a new job.

There are definitely socio-economic sectors where that attitude is quite prevalent.

The impression I get is that Yes supporters are more vocal on social media

TBH, I'm inclined to agree with this, again based on the people I know. I only know a couple of yes supporters. Obviously I don't know everyone's voting intentions but of those I do know, the Yes voters are considerably more vocal on facebook etc. I don't post no stuff because they just pile on and abuse.

Therefore, as a whole, the Scottish population are not against immigration enough to vote UKIP

So who voted for UKIP then ? Fairies at the bottom of the gardens? Scotland has a UKIP MEP.

Yes supporters are definitely more vocal and more likely to wear a badge and have a banner in their window. I know plenty of people planning to vote No but none of them wear a badge.

I know a few no voters.

One is in the Orange lodge and is looking forward to the big march a couple of days before the vote.
He likes to berate me in the street for being a republican cunt.

The second works in a factory and is a union rep, he has stood for UKIP in a previous council election and is a racist.

Oh there's a retired teacher who try's to bully his next door neighbour, a single woman and threatened to put her windows in if she puts her Yes poster up.

That's my experience of No voters in my area, thank goodness the majority where I live are voting Yes.

Easy to generalise eh.

So who voted for UKIP then ? Fairies at the bottom of the gardens? Scotland has a UKIP MEP.

Enough Scots voted for UKIP to get one UKIP mep
If Scots as a whole supported UKIP we'd have got six UKIP meps

Yup as Squoosh says, a huge amount of no voters in my family won't post vote no stuff online or even start a conversation with the yes voters I mentioned earlier because you just get dogs abuse. In real life I haven't heard the same going the other way. Nor on my FB, actually.

I only said the ones I know are more vocal, which is true. And that I've experienced abuse when I post no stuff. Which is true.

I did not, you will note, say every Yes voter I know is an abusive idiot, which appears to be your assertion about No voters.

On the UKIP MEP he got what 10% of the vote of a rather low turn out so not really representative.

I took my wee one to his swimming lesson last night and there's a block of two semis on the road to the pool. One has yes posters and one has no posters. I smiled when I saw it and hoped they all the sense to get on

*have the sense. Giving up and going for my tea!

Immigration is unlikely to be decided by Scotland anyway.

If we secure a Schengen opt out, the CTA has its own policy. And I highly doubt Westminster will bend to Scotland's directions.

If we don't secure the Schengen opt out, I think there are still EU wide policies.