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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to start a new Scottish Indyref thread?

999 replies

FannyFifer · 25/08/2014 22:28

Round 2 folks, ding ding!

OP posts:
squoosh · 26/08/2014 17:47

Apparently the Salmond/Darling Mumsnet webchat is still going ahead according to a recent tweet from MNHQ.

IrnBruTheNoo · 26/08/2014 17:49

If there's been one guarantee out of all of the referendum debate, it's shown some friends in their true light. I've been surprised at some peoples opinions on why they're voting one way or the other, or why they're choosing not to vote at all (!!).

chocoluvva · 26/08/2014 17:49

Me again.

Maybe the evening crowd will answer the question I asked earlier about exactly what the Scottish interests that are peculiarly Scottish are that are never addressed by the Westminster government.

I ask genuinely as I realise I'm not as informed as some other people on this thread. I'm usually only moderately interested in politics and didn't start researching the possible reasons to vote yes.

I was originally a no voter in principle - backwards step, dismantling things at great cost and effort for an understandable, but IMO not worthy enough cause. Then I realised that lots of intelligent people I know are planning to vote yes and that were things I didn't know about, eg the CAP funds not getting to the Scottish farmers. Though that all sounds very complicated and involved and open to debate. I'm not sure if I approve of being a nuclear power either.

I don't think there are any significant cultural differences - but yes voters don't argue that any more, usually. But if there are genuine economic interests peculiar to Scotland, rather than say beef or dairy farming - which might contribute more to the Scottish economy but is also a part of rUK economy - as there are cattle in rUK - then I've yet to hear what they are.

I understand the accusation of the Westminster parliament being London-centric though that's debatable, but that would be a cause for complaint for everyone outside of London. And in the event of a yes majority I predict an Edinburgh-centric Scottish government. Edinburgh has a lot in common with London already, except for its size. Many a Scottish person has never been further north than Inverness....

YouCantTeuchThis · 26/08/2014 17:51

Still don't get the 'side' thing - I just think everyone has a personal choice and it doesn't put me in (or out) anyone's 'gang' or favour by making that choice.

But now you have me thinking about it, there's a definite pack mentality thing at work.

WildThong · 26/08/2014 17:52

itsall that's twice you've brought the Orange Order into the conversation. Why did you feel that necessary? Neither they or republican groups have been mentioned at all so far and tbh it's probably better if they aren't. IMO.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 26/08/2014 17:53

Norway vs UK kcost of living comparison indicates costs are approx 30% higher which makes a pretty big dent in that disposable income

Have you got a link for that? (Couldn't find one).

IrnBruTheNoo · 26/08/2014 17:53

I'm actually more interested in voting trends amongst my family and friends and have found it really fascinating to work out why some are voting yes and others no. I'm sure other people on this thread have been surprised by the reactions of others in their life too. I can't be the only one!

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 26/08/2014 17:55

itsall that's twice you've brought the Orange Order into the conversation. Why did you feel that necessary

I felt it necessary as some posters were suggesting that Wings was an undesirable element on the Yes side. I was merely pointing out that team No has its controversial members also.

WildThong · 26/08/2014 17:55

No, I've been shocked too broo I didn't know my mum had given birth to Braveheart. Neither did she..Grin

WildThong · 26/08/2014 17:57

Ah, I didn't realise that Wings had sectarian connotations.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 26/08/2014 17:57

Still don't get the 'side' thing - I just think everyone has a personal choice and it doesn't put me in (or out) anyone's 'gang' or favour by making that choice.

Eh? There are two choices in this referendum, Yes or No. So either you are yea,no or on the fence. Everyone who votes is going to pick Yes or No. I suppose I could use teams or camps instead?

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 26/08/2014 18:00

It doesn't. I wasn't being that specific. Just pointing out that both Yes and No had people that the official campaigns were distancing themselves from.

WildThong · 26/08/2014 18:01

I know, was kidding..

ChelsyHandy · 26/08/2014 18:02

I think the history of Scotland has been filled with the consequences of people taking sides. Many ancient families lost their castles and lands as a result of taking the wrong side in a war. e.g. the Jacobite Risings. Its always the same when one side are trying to get power from another. Some people try to ally themselves to the most likely successful cause, so as to hope to get favoured in the aftermath.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 26/08/2014 18:07

I know, was kidding

Sorry...Sad

ChelsyHandy · 26/08/2014 18:07

Something that has astonished and yes, I'll admit horrified me in the lead up to the Referendum, aside from the embarrassing behaviour in the tv debate last night, is the way some people are using it as a means to enforcing old fashioned entrenched socialist ideology and agenda onto people. Some people see the two as indistinguishable.

Allied to that, one thing that really shocked me is that some people, in fact women, are fans of Tommy Sheridan and quite clearly have some sort of crush on him, despite his "difficulties" and limited physical appeal. Its like they sort of hero worship him. I must admit that I find that hard to grasp.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 26/08/2014 18:08

Some people try to ally themselves to the most likely successful cause, so as to hope to get favoured in the aftermath.

There's definitely some of that going on (in my opinion)

NCforAye · 26/08/2014 18:10

chocoluvva

Agh, I'm sorry, I was responding to this earlier when Mumsnet froze and then I got distracted actually went and did what I was supposed to be doing whilst it sorted itself out.

One thing that I think is peculiarly Scottish in the sense that it's very different from the rest of the UK is the issue of immigration. Scotland as a country with a low population density (and a stagnant population - check out the figures in the table under "Historical population" here) can deal with and indeed would benefit from inward migration. However, the current Westminster policy, which I don't think is going away any time soon, is based on a rest-of-the-UK context in which population is booming and people are increasingly concerned about inwards migration. (Whether that concern is justified is another matter for another thread!) So, there's a genuine need for inward migration, especially skilled, in Scotland.

Coupled to that different need is a different set of attitudes. Polling has shown that Scottish people as a whole are much less negative about immigration than people in the rest of the UK.

Immigration is an issue that can never be devolved because the rest of the UK would worry about people moving to Scotland, getting British citizenship, and then moving south.

That's the first one that comes to mind for me - I'm sure others will have further thoughts?

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 26/08/2014 18:11

is the way some people are using it as a means to enforcing old fashioned entrenched socialist ideology and agenda onto people

Eh? I've not seen anyone enforcing anything?

PhaedraIsMyName · 26/08/2014 18:12

I'm sure other people on this thread have been surprised by the reactions of others in their life too. I can't be the only one!

Apart from certain relatives of my husband and 1 friend who have always been nats I don't know a single yes voter. In my particular work sector "no " is a given.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 26/08/2014 18:15

That's the first one that comes to mind for me - I'm sure others will have further thoughts?

Trident is another on that springs to mind...

tilliebob · 26/08/2014 18:17

I know a lot of people who are smiling and nodding at what are a fee pretty rabid Yes voters in my family. They have no intention of voting Yes, though, but they can't be arsed explaining and the huge amount of vitriol they will get for it.

tilliebob · 26/08/2014 18:17
  • a few...bloody iPad
PhaedraIsMyName · 26/08/2014 18:18

Polling has shown that Scottish people as a whole are much less negative about immigration than people in the rest of the UK.

That's why they voted in sufficient numbers to turn one of their 6 meps into a UKIP mep then? Or try telling that to refugees who suffered appalling treatment in Council houses in Glasgow.

But yes I concede Polish tradesmen are very popular in Edinburgh (which to its credit had the lowest UKIP vote)

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 26/08/2014 18:19

They have no intention of voting Yes, though, but they can't be arsed explaining and the huge amount of vitriol they will get for it.

I'm sure there is a fair bit of that on both sides. I know I'm a lot shyer at sticking up for myself in RL.