To wonder how you're voting in the Scottish Referendum and why?

[deeedeee]

a month away from the vote thought it would be interesting to ask

( no bunfighting , derision or soundbites please. just yes or no and why. feel free to post more than once with different reasons. No links unless independent fact or opinion, nothing from the official campaigns)

I'm a YES

because Westminster's failed to protect the vunerable and the UK's me first politics have taken us down a particularly nasty path. An independent Scotland leans towards to left and can potentially choose a better route. And if a change happens in scotland then I think that that could inspire a change in the direction of politics in the rest of the UK.

I think it will be great for England if the Scots go. I'm tired of all the anti English vitriol.

It's not anti English MrsRuffallo, it's anti Westminster. I'm sick of the Scottish people being portrayed as leeches to be honest. It's this attitude of "We're keeping you" that clarifies why I'm voting yes. How dare we want a proper say in Scotland's economy?
I have nothing AT ALL against English people as my family are scattered all over the Uk. What pisses me off is Westminster telling me I should be happy that my vote counts for nothing in a general election.

For you it may be Anti Westminster, but for many that crosses over into pure racism.It's such a shame.

I don't think there is a lot of anti-English vitriol, mrsruffalo. Not that I've seen.

I do see a bit of a victim mentality and an assumption that the Scottish will be much better off under independence because they think they get a really raw deal right now.

I have never been given the impression that Scottish people are leeches. Never. Why do you think that's the potrayal of Scots in England? It may be more propaganda, like Scottish people aren't treated well in England or other nonsense that people are fed.

Aww mrs, I don't feel that way. I lurve Scotland. I am happy for Scots to run their own country; all I worry about is the effect on rUK of some of the issues they haven't resolved yet.

I don't see how they are getting more of a raw deal than working class people in England. We are living through dangerous times.

I love Scotland too. Have relatives who living there very happily, I have Scottish friends I adore. I just hate the way the campaign feels it has to rubbish all of the positive stuff to win. It's throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Sorry, I wasn't saying that they do necessarily get a raw deal now, merely that that seems to be the perception. I'm not in a position to judge whether or not perception is correct.

I do very much doubt that Scotland will be better off under independence, but maybe that's not the point. If people value self-governance for its own sake, it doesn't matter.

The raw deal thing is important.

Partly politically, as in, if what you want from independence is a fairer society then the raw deal theme supports that point.

Sticking yet again to the money, if Scots currently get a raw deal, then when iScotland improve things for ppl, it ought to be affordable.

If mrs is right and the deal is just as raw down sarf, then iScotland will not be able to afford its better deal.

I don't know what I would do if iScotland crashed. Perhaps we could all walk off whistling going, "tough". It's more likely we would want to bail iScotland out rather than watch her go through bad times. That said, we didn't bail Eire out, did we?

Ppl having a rough deal darn sarf might be mightily pissed off if all the money goes bailing out a better deal in iScotland......

So actually, it would be good to know if things are really worse, unfairly worse, in Scotland than in the impoverished bits of rUK.

It is a shame that there are racist people in the world but that applies everywhere not just regarding the referendum. There have been numerous posts on various threads on here that were condescending at best and downright offensive.

I don't think we do have a victim mentality. I think we have done very well with the Scottish government but this just feels like the next step. I'm very aware of propaganda and I'm not one of these people that believes everything I read in the papers.

I have no faith in the government. I have no faith in Cameron or any other Tory cronies. I don't much like Alec Salmond but I want a more tolerant society. I don't want any more 'tax the poor' crap. I'm fed up with all of it.

We have the option for change so why not take it? I think it'll take ages to sort everything out and get on our feet but eventually I think it'll be good.

I don't think we could bail out an independent Scotland, beast, unless there were significant benefits to rUK in doing so. If Scotland chooses independence, then the rUK government's primary responsibility would be to it's own people.

However, I don't think iScotland would crash or need a bailout. I'm sure it would be strong enough to stand on its own two feet. I just don't think it's going to turn into the land of milk and honey as predicted by many of the nationalists.

For most people, I imagine life won't change all that much. But as I said, maybe that won't matter, and people will be satisfied by the knowledge that they have a government elected by the Scottish people.

Whatever happens, I wish them the best of luck.

snapes- I totally agree. I don't think things will change that much on a day to day basis. I don't have this utopian dream of an independent Scotland. For one thing I think they'll probably keep The Orange Walk which is totally outdated but I'm willing to compromise on that for the sake of other benefits.

It is pretty much a leap of faith though.

Nothing wrong with a leap of faith, clara. You sound fairly realistic about what you're voting for.

I think a part of the problem is that there is exaggeration on both sides. The BT campaign seems to be predicting doom and gloom for an independent Scotland while the yes campaign seems to be suggesting that iScotland would become the sort of socialist utopia that some people have described on this thread. The reality, I suspect, is that neither of these predictions are accurate...

The reality, I suspect, is that neither of these predictions are accurate

That is very true.

I am only a little less uncomfortable for Salmond to run the country I live in than that David Cameron and his mates tbh.
I am trying v hard to see the Bigger Picture and not just look at there personages involved.

than DC

This kind of stuff is often on the telly so yes I do think we are portrayed as scroungers or not as worthy by other countries in the UK.

On the subject of possible future bail-outs for Scotland ...

Forgive me if this has already been mentioned, but let's not forget that the Act of Union itself was largely a result of Scotland losing much of its money in Panama (then called the Darien Peninsula)

It doesn't get mentioned much now, but when discussing historical support for the Scots, it's perhaps worth bearing in mind?

I think the beauty of this is that Salmond probably won't run the country - if the SNP continue to do well throughout the negotiation period then yes, people may feel that they are the safest bet for the first election after independence (but by then I anticipate Nicola Sturgeon will be the leader). But going forward I can see a revitalised and truly socialist labour party appearing from the ashes, and I believe the Greens will also do very well.

I, like many Yes voters, do not expect a land of milk and honey. I recognise that Scotland's social and health problems are deeply entrenched and will take a long time to overcome. But the will to achieve that would be there, and right now it really isn't. We might not be London rich but who wants that? At the end of the day, whoever is in power will be there because they have been elected by the people of Scotland and that will be good enough for me :)

Fanny I think I know what that is and I can't click it just in case - it would be a shame if I threw this laptop out of the window

A bit more detail on Darien; it wasn't a bail out of Scotland, as the money lost came from private capital and Scotland had no national debt at the time.

No, I appreciate that AS won't be around forever, whatever the outcome of the Referendum.
But I'd just hate him to be the person who will forever be in the history books for having achieved independence for Scotland IYKWIM (just like it still smarts that it was Helmut Kohl who was chancellor in Germany when East and West were reunited. Such a dim man and all the wrong policies, but he was in the right place at the right time).

I am not AS's greatest fan (I've always voted SNP but that was because I wanted a referendum, and if we get a Yes I will probably vote Green in future) but I can also respect that he has vision and incredible tenacity, and he is a very gifted politician. I can think of few other likely candidates to get us to where we are now (and I know that makes a lot of people hate him even more!). But if we achieve independence it will be on the back of the population of Scotland, and the names of the leaders at the time will be insignificant in comparison to the real issues of moving forward :)

Yes, he is a very clever man and a very good politician - those are part of the reason why I am suspicious of him

An interesting article, OldLadyKnowsSomething - even if a little airbrushed; after all, even the piece makes clear that Scotland's wealth was massively increased by the access to colonial trade which was gained as a result of the union

I do completely agree, though, that a historical mistake needn't affect a better future - my aim was simply to identify the precedents for financial asistance which already exist, and the future expectations which might arise from them