to get annoyed with my friend for failing to understand there is a difference between having a child and babysitting/working with children?

[BauerTime]

I'm getting increasingly frustrated with my dear friend, who is lovely and selfless and doesn't have a bad bone in her body, but seems to think that she knows all about the complexity of raising a child and the way it changes your life and capabilities, because she has nieces and nephews who she minds now and again, and works in a school. I have no doubt that she is fully capable of looking after kids, she is in fact a complete natural with them. She works with children with SEN and other disabilities and is also great at her job.

However, what is really grating on me is that she comments on others parenting, gives unsolicited advice on how to raise a child, has a complete lack of empathy for the things that come with parenting such as lower household standards/different priorities etc. I have been trying to gently point out when she goes off on one, that its not always as simple or clear cut as she thinks it is but she just refuses to see it.

This past year she has been studying, plus had a long term house guest who is messy and inconsiderate, it all got a bit on top of her and considered getting a cleaner as she never had enough hours in the day. She got v stressed at one point. I suggested that it was good practice for when she has kids in a jokey way but she completely shot me down saying that having a child would be much easier as she would have full control, would have a routine/plan, would do xyz in a day etc. She cannot see that having a small child over night, only doing fun things, having a bag fully packed of everything you need and managing to get through it and drop them back home 24 hours later is not what its like to live it every day.

I know that you have no idea if the full on-ness of having a small child until you have one but surely you can see that its not the same as a sleepover or a day at work, leaving it all behind at 5pm??????

AIBU?

Well, maybe a tiny bit, hard to say

No I'm NOT!

Maybe time to let the friendship drift a bit if you're less compatible / tolerant of each other

Melissa - you seem to suggest that taking children to work could be a realistic option for quite a lot of people. I can't see how that's true. I can't think of many places where that would be permitted

Melissa I have never had a minute's childcare help from anyone (my family are all hundreds of miles away and in anycase worked FT and I was a single parent for a decade with no contact from exDH) that fact was not going to persuade my employers to allow samll children into the building. No way, no how.

Neither would any amount of positive thinking on my part.

You are LUCKY that your work is flexible enough that you can take your DC in, you were LUCKY with your course and your lecturers. Why not just say so and cut the patronising 'I believe in the DC slotting round me' guff? PLEASE?

She completely shot me down saying that having a child would be much easier as she would have full control, would have a routine/plan, would do xyz in a day etc.

Cherish these words. Remind her of them when she has a child.

On a side note, I have had a messy room mate and I have been watching 3 small children while taking care of my baby. It's easier to control a child's mess than an adult's. A child will listen to you, only eat in designated places, and clear their plate to the sink if you tell them because that's the rules. An adult will roll their eyes "and do it later", and you can't put them in timeout for not listening.

Children are easier to manage than adults who see you as an equal and not an authority figure.

I dont just mean in work I mean in all areas. My mum was the type like the op that thought I would find it a major crisis having children and shes like it again now my 3rds due. She says ooh you cant do that with children to everything. Things like going on holiday on my own with them when dc2 was a month old. She made a right deal saying ooh when shes born you wont be able to do it, wait till you have 2 its so hard etc, you wont know whats hit you etc. Again I did it totally fine no problems. I could write a book the times she has said this and as yet havent struggled the way she anticipates. For this reason I think the op is beingunreasonable as listening to my mum saying it makes me want to punch her in the face

I don't think some parents have any idea how patronising they can be at times towards women who don't have children. It's something that used to rile and sometimes upset me. I'm very lucky to be a parent myself now but I try not to forget that. I would let it go.

For this reason I think the op is beingunreasonable as listening to my mum saying it makes me want to punch her in the face

Wow

I agree floisme. My mum can cope with one at a time. She had them both once and called me back from 250 miles away on the only night I had been away and left them both as dc2 had a slight temperature and between her and my dad they couldnt cope with it.

Shes always like ooh its so hard. Its not mum I do it all day every day. There is nothing that is a big deal to me as Ive seen it, done it

I have a friend a little bit like this, who I absolutely love to bits, but because she spends a lot of time around her neices and nephews, she can become a bit know-it-all when it comes to children.

An example is that DS was born over 8 weeks prem. We were told from the beginning that he would be behind on his milestones. And he was. He didn't start speaking until he was 2yrs and 7 months. Despite a hearing test that came back normal and a check-up at the hospital that deemed his abilities pefectly fine, he just could not speak. Until one day, it just happened.

Whenever it comes up about DS not speaking or another child not speaking, my friend ALWAYS says that DS didn't speak because he didn't need to, because I figured out what he needed and wanted so I never made him need to speak. It winds me up because she doesn't seem to get that DS could not be forced to speak! She thinks instead of me giving him water because I knew that's what he what his sounds and pointing meant, I should have just refused until he said the word, "Water"

It pisses me off, but I love her.

I got into an argument with a dear friend about this once on a night out! She thought having her nephew for one night gave her complete understanding of what it was like to have a child full time, and couldn't see why I was so exhausted from it. I told her it just wasn't the same and refused to talk about it any further. It still annoys me when I think about it.

My 2 DC are with XP for two weeks - one week down. First time this has happened for longer than 3 days.

I am astonished and gob smacked at how much time I have ATM.

I still work FT, but not having the little mites around has freed up a huge amount of time - in the mornings and evenings. It's marvelous and I am loving it missing them dearly of course, but children and all that goes with them just seem to eat time.

I think until you are living 24/7 with children you really have no idea (I didn't)

OP I often thought this about Supernanny. I know she worked with kids but at the end of the day she got to go home and de-stress to a child free household (I don't have child free and could recognise that there is a difference)

Sorry meant I don't have children and can still recognise that there is a difference

Domestic - DS was 14 weeks prem and didn;t really speak much until he was 3 and it was at 4 that he finally reached all the usual developmental markers - so I absolutely get what you mean about people (to be fiar other parents were worst!) about trying to explain where you were going wrong

To be fair to myself Melissa I managed to look after DS on my own in a 3rd floor walk up flat in temperatures of -20C then transport him half way around the world on my own when he was 14 months. So I would like to think I'm hardly someone who caves at the slightest challenge

I still found the pre-school years very hard to manage on my own with a very active child who didn't sleep as much as other children appeared to whilst attempting to not totally screw up a responsible job.

I feel some satisfaction that my finding this difficult has given you confirmation of your superior parenting skills.

Or maybe I'm just (as I said before and suspect) really just a barely adequate parent.

Ho hum. Never mind DS is still alive and seems happy and swears he loves me despite my failings.

I feel like the crux of your frustration op is more to do with your friends seeming lack of empathy? I have plenty of childless friends who are fonts of knowledge when it comes to child rearing and it doesn't bother me in the slightest. Mostly they're well meaning, and theoretically right, despite a lack of first hand experience. However it doesn't sit comfortably with me when anyone openly criticises someones parenting, whether they have children themselves or not. Leaving aside obvious abuse/neglect cases, i tend to think unless it's your child, you don't really know how it is for that particular parent/ family?
I have one dd, she sleeps v well, has her moments obviously, but I generally keep a clean house and get everywhere on time. I would NEVER assume that makes me entitled to maker mean comments about friends with kids who are late, have messy houses etc?!! I think everyone just needs to cut each other some slack and I don't have time for judgy pants people regardless whether they are childless or not.

Melissa at what point did i say that my friend would be in crisis when she has a child? I believe my actual words were along the lines of she is great with kids and a complete natural.

You seem to be under the impression that in sitting in a corner rocking because I'm finding it such a struggle bring a parent. I'm not. I'm not saying that its difficult, I'm saying that its demanding work, relentless at times, and requires your life and routines to change to accommodate someone elses needs, someone who relies on you completely, for everything.

Good for you if you work in childcare and are able to take your children to work with you. Even though I'm sure you are supermum, its not because you are able to do this.

I'm not telling anyone its not possible to do anything once you have a child so don't worry, you wont be needing to punch me in the face.

Fancy a biscuit?

Yes Kris its the criticism of other people's abilities and choices without the willingness to accept that she might not know better.

Whilst I can honestly say that nothing in my life had prepared me for the horrors of having children. I can equally say that nothing in my life had prepared me for having cancer. In both instances mostly well meaning people tried to help me with suggestions about how to make things better. Some were good, some were plain daft. Many times I was tempted to scream "You don't understand because you haven't been through this". But what good would it do? They all could legitimately say that there were aspects about their lives that I would never understand - and they were correct.

Sometimes people without children might have an idea that parents haven't thought of, something that only someone outside the family, who isn't exhausted and at the end of their tether can see. I speak from experience.

I don't see men making these judgements about each other. Why do women?

Just nod sagely and smile to yourself that you can bring up all her pearls of wisdom when she has a child lol. I love my dc1 recipe piton teacher - saw he at a soft play and she came over to chat as we were both trying to potty train other dc. She freely admitted that she has no problem controlling a class of 30 but with her own two she has to often call in reinforcements from her dh or mum - loved her for sharing

Yanbu. But i agree with a pp. cut her some slack. She probably has more understanding than a lot of ppl who dish out unwanted opinions
The list of ideals i have not lived up to is too long to write here
But overall, i would say my pre parenting philosophy remained a bout the same after i had children.
No. She doesn't know how hard it is, but at the same time she can't really know how wonderful it is. So just be ready to hold her hand and share her joy if she becomes a mum.

It must depend so much on the baby. Mine is a non-napping, clingy, inquisitive little monkey who's totally engrossed in pulling all the books off the bookshelf one minute, then notices that I've moved a few feet away to empty the washing machine and howls as though she's been abandoned to the bears and wolves. Once she's out, she's fine and lovely and can be passed around friends and family like a little parcel, but getting ready to go out/preparing her food/doing the most basic essential housework is like a mythological quest. I have loads of family support and I'm still struggling. If she'd have a half hour nap or sit in the jumperoo for a bit, she'd slot in a lot easier.

Complete agree with Floisme. It's so patronising.

Children definitely have their own agenda. When Ds2 was a baby, I found it very difficult to leave the house before 11am as Ds1 was in prime tantrum mode, and two major flash points were breakfast and getting dressed which on a bad day could add towards an hour. I was still riddled with SPD, so simple things like sitting on the floor were logistically difficult and painful. If I timed things wrong then Ds2 would need another 40min feed before leaving the house. They slot with some aspects of life, and are flexible about routines. I don't have to be at X with them and doing Y at Z o'clock. On days when I'm on my own, it astounds me how easy it is to leave the house with a mere 3 or 4 essential items.

I work with a large range of ages in paid and voluntary work. I notice little difference in energy at the end of my SAH days and working days. I've found I have more confidence in managing the behaviour of a toddler because of what I've experienced at work, but a tough day at work ends when I drive home. Work doesn't have me up multiple times in the night, and tiredness level makes a massive difference to coping ability. I miss the ability to have a good bed bonding session at the weekend to catch up.

It can be helpful in some ways to have experience of other children before your own, but it's rarely as relentless. My current challenge is loading the dishwasher without the "assistance " of a 1 yr old sitting in it. He's super sensitive and appears like magic every time it opens. It'll be replaced with a new phase soon enough.

My best friend is like this. Highly organized, type A. Her DC are going to eat everything, sleep through the night at a month, and never, ever have toys anywhere but their bedrooms.

She is hoping to get pregnant within the year. Oh, it will be interesting. :o

Thing is though, some DC slot in far more easily than others, and it often has sod all to do with parenting. Some DC are easygoing, sleep well, eat well, and generally behave well with minimal tantrums. Other DC don't sleep, want to follow you everywhere, constantly test the boundaries, and generally make it more difficult and time consuming to get sorted of a morning.

Lack of sleep certainly affects your ability to cope, and it can get more difficult if your DC is the clingy, needy sort. I certainly wasn't prepared for the lack of sleep, and effect it's had on my ability to function. Neither of my DC sleep well (not a parenting failure as certain family members would have you believe ) despite our best efforts an DS1 having surgery to improve the situation. As a result they can be tired, cranky and very resistant to getting up and out in the morning.

And for what it's worth, pre-DC I spouted some guff about routines and never ever co-sleeping. Ha! How wrong was I! And I did apologise to the poor sod I said that too