to think that 'mini-wife' is problematic for exactly the same reasons that 'jailbait' is problematic?

[ArsenicyOldFace]

In that it transfers responsibility from adult men onto female children?

Thankfully one doesn't hear the word 'jailbait' much any more; society has moved on and we now understand the process of grooming etc

It seems to me that the term sensationalises and detracts from something which is a real issue.

It can only be a very good thing for those who are genuinely experiencing these issues that it isn't bandied about the boards?

I realise people go on to the boards for support, but it's a similar scenario to seeing someone on relationships using the term jailbait for example as it was used in the OP. That I hope would be challenged even though the OP might be having some issues in real life.

I see the phrase thrown about quite a bit think its offensive child blaming and that it says rather a lot about the person using it and how they view the world.

purely none scientific personal observations on the matter are that often when I see the terms spouseification or parentification used usually the post contains information that leads me to the impression that the op has legit concerns, but when I see the term mini wife used more often than not the post contains nothing of the sort but does apply adult motives to children often has implication of romantic language and reads more like a petty jealous immature step parent.

Because I'm shattered and expect I'm not explaining very well what I mean the post up thread by softly is one where I would be very surprised to see the term mini wife.

But (made up over the top example now) my 7yo sd has contact 2 days a month during that time she likes to sit next to my dp at meals and hold his hand whilst walking out and about, she has asked if next visit they can go to the cinema just the two of them and she does not like me very much, I hate it she's monopolising him she's excluding me and now she wants to go on a date with him she's obviously jealous and hates it when I kiss him its about time she got used to me after all I'm her step mum because I've been with dp 6 months now we are a family how do I stop him encouraging this bad behaviour he even agreed to phone her the week in between visits!!

Is exactly the type of post I would expect to see it in.

I prefer the classical term: Electra complex, where Buicks are not built.

Never heard the term before. Let's hope it stays obscure and doesn't become common phrase.

I have never thought that the term "mini wife" or indeed "mini husband" as anything else than a conplete condemnation of the adult in the relationship. A child can not be held accountable for the boundaries or lack of them put in place by their parent. My eldest DSS has struggled with this for years - when his Mum is single he becomes the "man of the house", she talks to him about her problems, tells him about her loneliness, allows him free reign over bedtimes, behaviour and activities. As soon as a new partner is on the scene he is relegated to being a child again, which leaves us with a very confused, upset wee boy to deal with. None of this is his fault, it is the fault of his parent who can't maintain an consistent parent / child relationship with him.

In my opinion there may be a certain kind of person who buys into these theories, I think it can be quite convenient for them now to have the label of "spousification" to hang their hat on where before they were pretty happy to use "mini wives".

That is not to say it does not exist , I am quite sure it does, in extreme cases, but I think that this belief more often comes from a place of jealousy, resentment and lack of understanding of how a father and his daughter might relate rather than there actually being a dynamic of "spousification" happening.

Electra complex is not quite the same though - and even if it were, then it's still placing the blame squarely on the child in the equation.

I realise this is only Wikipedia but still, it shows that the Electra complex is thought by some to be a part of a child's normal psychosexual development, and one that they usually grow out of around age 6 - so not completely comparable to the MWS/spousification dynamic.

I think you have a point there Needs. The 'need to vent' has been offered quite a bit as a justification for use of MW & MWS. Of course, some people 'vent' excessively and some people seek constructive ways forward....

I realise people go on to the boards for support, but it's a similar scenario to seeing someone on relationships using the term jailbait for example as it was used in the OP. That I hope would be challenged even though the OP might be having some issues in real life.

THIS, what Harold said

nicki do you think it is a therapeutic "fashion", rather than a defined family dynamic?

How do you feel about the classical terms Electra and Oedipus complex? Certainly my reading around those terms implies they are child-led (based on a stage of child development), not parent-motivated, and that dysfunctional child development leads to an inappropriate child/parent dynamic as the child matures - but it does suggest that this phenomenon was observed long before modern family therapy was prevenlent.

No I think it's a real thing. I think I said that in my post didn't I? But I also think without deep and extensive analysis by a professional it's a convenient label for a certain kind of person to justify their own issues. As explained in my previous post.

Looking back on this thread it would appear that the majority if not all who have posted dislike the term MWS.

Spousification/parentification are accepted but are very complex and should not be used in place of MWS as the two describe very different situations. ell that's how I see it.

*Looking back on this thread it would appear that the majority if not all who have posted dislike the term MWS.

Spousification/parentification are accepted but are very complex and should not be used in place of MWS as the two describe very different situations. ell that's how I see it.*

Yes, that's pretty much how I see it too.

That is not to say it does not exist , I am quite sure it does, in extreme cases, but I think that this belief more often comes from a place of jealousy, resentment and lack of understanding of how a father and his daughter might relate rather than there actually being a dynamic of "spousification" happening.

Yes, I agree. It's normal and usual for little girls to sit on their dad's lap, playing with his hair, etc. Yet these are often given as examples of 'spousification,' but more likely called MW.

It's not abuse for a dad to let his dd sleep in his bed or sit in the front seat of the car. When the SM comes along and the dd is asked/expected to give up her prime position in the master bedroom and the front seat, she can become resentful.

This is when the mini-wife label becomes most apparent to me and I can see why it is used in that context to describe the situation as it appears to the SM.

Anyone who hasn't been in that position can't possibly understand the complex emotions surrounding that relationship, the feeling of knowing that dd was there first and will always be the most important person in her DP's life, but also wishing for some acknowledgment of her own position in the family.

Having heard my dp explain to his 5 y/o dd that she couldn't sleep in his bed tonight as I was too big to fit into her bed, I felt really annoyed, it was as if his bed was her territory and it was only a practicality stopping her from sleeping there instead of me! I KNOW there was no real reason for me to feel aggrieved, but there is often a feeling that as the SM you are not the 'real' wife, you're an interloper and that there will always be someone who automatically gets those spousal privileges. When your dp is trying to do the right thing by everyone it is understandable that sometimes these things occur. I don't see naming it with an easily identifiable label as a big issue.

Having heard my dp explain to his 5 y/o dd that she couldn't sleep in his bed tonight as I was too big to fit into her bed, I felt really annoyed, it was as if his bed was her territory and it was only a practicality stopping her from sleeping there instead of me! I KNOW there was no real reason for me to feel aggrieved, but there is often a feeling that as the SM you are not the 'real' wife, you're an interloper and that there will always be someone who automatically gets those spousal privileges.

I'm sorry you felt that way Penelope. Five is very young. Have things improved now?

I don't see naming it with an easily identifiable label as a big issue.

People might say the same thing about the label 'jailbait'. Do you see the parallel?

Pene You are not made to feel like an interloper/not a real wife by a 5 year olds actions/behaviour. You are made to feel like that because of your DH's actions/behaviour.

The main reason that I can see from this thread and my own feeling is that MWS lays the blame at the child's feet. Your DH is at fault here and in no way is his DD acting like a mini wife through choice she is acting like a 5 yo. It is how he has conditioned her to act.

At no point in your post have you said:
'DH allows/encourages her to act this way'.
'DH fails to acknowledge me or show his DD that I also have a place in his life'.

It is not the job of a child to make you feel like a real wife, that responsibility is your husbands.

I think for me it's the 'bait' part of that label which is problematic, the child is seen as a 'lure' and is responsible for leading an adult into temptation.

For me, 'wife' is a status which doesn't have negative connotations for either the father or the daughter, it certainly doesn't 'blame' the dd for her behaviour, it labels the whole dynamic of the family situation more than the simply the child to which is refers.

To me it is certainly apparent that DP's relaxed style of parenting is the cause of his DD's understanding of the situation with me. I would explain to my dd in no uncertain terms when she is and isn't allowed to sleep in my bed and why (this may be because dp is here, or it may be that I don't want to be woken early in the morning, or because she needs a good nights sleep). My rules and boundaries are seen as excessively harsh by dp and he doesn't see the need for explaining things in full detail to his DDs or for imposing boundaries 'just for the sake of it'.

I don't blame DP's dd for wanting to retain the position she has been freely given, but this doesn't stop me from feeling resentful towards dp when it prevents me from adopting certain natural behaviours of couples. This may be felt more keenly than it would in a nuclear mother+father family due to the other dynamics at play.

I think your post, Penelope is a really good example of what we see on these boards a lot. As Flossy pointed out, your gripe is with your dp. It is his behaviour that needs to change.

He caused it, he is the only one that can fix it.

He owes it to the child and to you. Calling her a MW just puts the responsibility firmly on the child, can you see that? And what is the child to do about it anyway, she knows no different, she is powerless.

Flossy, I absolutely agree that this is generally all down to the DP's behaviour, not the dd. But how do you label that behaviour in a succinct way without referring to the child? "He treats his dd like a mini-wife" puts the onus firmly on him, despite the label being used about the child.

I don't feel resentful towards his dd as such, more the situation that arises when we are all together, which is obviously not apparent when it is just him and my DCs. Even so, with some communication we are able to address these things, much like any other family would have to discuss their house rules and their parenting strategies. It is just harder to reach a compromise which pleases everyone when the parents and the children are not all equally related or equally treated.

I think for me it's the 'bait' part of that label which is problematic, the child is seen as a 'lure' and is responsible for leading an adult into temptation.

I think MW & MWS similarly imply that the child has responsibility for adult decisions and actions.

But I don't think it necessarily implies that the child has adopted those responsibilities and privileges without her father's input.

The child is not responsible at all. The adult is.

"Mini-wife" can indeed be used in the sentence "A treats his DD like a mini-wife," but it can also be used in the sentence "DD behaves like she's A's mini-wife."

Whereas "A has parentified DD" and "DD has been parentified by A" both firmly state that the action is done by A, and the DD is on the receiving end.