to think that 'mini-wife' is problematic for exactly the same reasons that 'jailbait' is problematic?

[ArsenicyOldFace]

In that it transfers responsibility from adult men onto female children?

Thankfully one doesn't hear the word 'jailbait' much any more; society has moved on and we now understand the process of grooming etc

[FlossyMoo]

YANBU.

I have voiced my reasons for disliking it on previous threads. It is ill fitting and in some way blames the child when it is in fact usually the fault of the parent.

Ara nobody is doubting the existence of this damaging dynamic but the fault ultimately lies with the parent who allows/encourages this behaviour.

[ArsenicyOldFace]

It seems a bit like calling little boys 'girly' if they cry or whatever?

Also a good point Shaska

[windchime]

A colleague used to refer to her son as 'my sexy boy'.

[Sootgremlin]

It seems weird to view the child as 'mini-wife', why not just a scared and confused daughter not dealing with a transition very well? Why must she be characterised as a 'wife'?

[NickiFury]

The term "mini wife" has been used far more than by just one poster. There's more than one thread that could be linked, anyone can do a search if they're interested.......

For a time the right to use it was staunchly defended by some too, it was only after some "discussion" that the terms "spousification" and "parentification" were agreed to be more acceptable.

It's a vile term and mini wives do NOT exist. Only children being damaged by the adults around them who are not parenting them effectively.

[7Days]

sootgremlin because she's the boss, she cracks the whip, poor old bloke only trying to keep those daft females happy, I suppose

[TheBogQueen]

Mini wife is disgusting when used in the context of blaming the girl fir behaviour which has been subconsciously been moulded by dad ( or mum) The daughter will be trying to fill her mothers shoes in terms of taking responsibility for the happiness and security of her family. It's a heavy weight to bear.

I saw a thread where it was used and what was apparent was that the father was unwilling or unable to draw boundaries.

Yes it is blaming the child.

[EveDallasRetd]

Oh right, I thought this thread was a result of the other recent one, sorry. I really hadn't seen anyone defending the term, I actually thought lots of people were quite quick to reference the proper studies. I thought it was very interesting. I'm surprised that anyone would defend it tbh, although I suppose it is an 'easy' slang.

I'll leave you to it

[TheBogQueen]

And female friends of mine who were living with their mothers after parents seperated experienced similar things- boundaries between parent and child become blurred, and it's hard to cope when mum gets a new partner.

[ArsenicyOldFace]

For a time the right to use it was staunchly defended by some too, it was only after some "discussion" that the terms "spousification" and "parentification" were agreed to be more acceptable.

Yes Nicki and it's still being used by some.

I'm not very comfortable with 'spousifcation' or 'parentification' either TBH when they are also used in a way that focuses on the child or sounds angry or accusatory, because then the focus has still not been appropriately directed.

[NickiFury]

I think it's a very aggressive term, towards the child and if you were to read some of the descriptions of the kind of interactions between a father and his dd that result in the label "mini wives" being used, you would see that it is often placing the blame squarely on the shoulders of really young children, aged four and upwards.

It is quite clear that the complainant is focussing entirely on the child and is jealous and angry rather than concerned. Quite frankly it's often nonsense too because all that is being described is normal closeness between a father and his dd.

[AnyFucker]

if I ever heard someone use the term "mini wife" I would call them out as aweirdo that sexualises young girls

what the actual fuck ?

[YetAnotherHelenMumsnet]

Evening all,
We are getting a few reports in, worried that the existence of this thread might stir up some bad feeling regarding recent events elsewhere on the boards. We're going to respond to those reports saying that D E F I N I T E L Y won't happen, and we're completely right to do that, aren't we?
Aren't we?

[ArsenicyOldFace]

although I suppose it is an 'easy' slang.

Maybe that's (a small) part of it.

Some people have dropped it to be fair.

I've been away and have been reading to catch up. It's the few that are grimly holding onto it in the face of reasoned objection that have shocked me.

[YetAnotherHelenMumsnet]

Yikes, that looks really arsey. Should I deploy the ?
Ach, you know what I mean. Please don't fight. That's what I mean.

[AnyFucker]

Dunno what you are on about Helen < have been at work all day >

[OfaFrenchMind]

Mini-wife... Yikes!

[NickiFury]

Helen there has been a lot of discussion regarding this term (as you know only too well ) but I do think it's useful to open it up to a wider audience. Hopefully it will remain a sensible discussion though.

[ArsenicyOldFace]

It's not supposed to YetAnotherHelenMumsnet

It is supposed to draw a useful illustrative comparison and encourage helpful exchanges of views.

I'm all smiley and fluffy here and willing to share my cheesecake with anyone who feels irritable (it has excellent endorphin-provoking properties).

[ArsenicyOldFace]

And the wider audience thing that Nicki said too (forgot that bit ).

[FlossyMoo]

Hi Helen

I for one (given my recent deleted post) can assure you I will discuss the topic in question in a reasoned and measured way.

I think it is very wrong for somebody to report a thread that is in no way breaking talk guidelines. At the end of the day if they do not like the subject matter they can hide it. Feels a little like harassment tbh. However I trust that you will deal with any issues fairly and hopefully throw some cake our way if the debate goes on for a while

[TheBogQueen]

I've been at work too.

Have no idea what other things have been happening nor why the thread should be reported

[YetAnotherHelenMumsnet]

Hey, you know what we're like at HQ, man... chilled out entertainers who love nothing more than productive discourse and fascinating chitchat, it's the angst and noia that twists our melons. So it goes without saying that we will let all convo flow where poss.

[Softlysoftlycatchymonkey]

It's a vile term and mini wives do NOT exist. Only children being damaged by the adults around them who are not parenting them effectively

This. ^^

Sadly I have seen it, it was between mother and son. I felt so sorry for the son and the horrible emotional strain on him.

[ArsenicyOldFace]

I'm not very comfortable with 'spousifcation' or 'parentification' either TBH when they are also used in a way that focuses on the child or sounds angry or accusatory, because then the focus has still not been appropriately directed.

Sorry forgot to format that to emphasise the 'when'.

OTOH when those terms are used in their true therapeutic sense it has a very different emphasis, I think.

I suppose I'm making the point that both vocab AND intent matter.