to think that 'mini-wife' is problematic for exactly the same reasons that 'jailbait' is problematic?

[ArsenicyOldFace]

In that it transfers responsibility from adult men onto female children?

Thankfully one doesn't hear the word 'jailbait' much any more; society has moved on and we now understand the process of grooming etc

I don't frequent the boards wakey but what would happen if be relatively new step parent were to start a thread in that vein?

Would this be explained?

I don't think that elsewhere on the boards a term like this would be left unchallenged and whilst that new step parent might need support, I would hope the terminology and blaming of the child would be challenged.

I've seen posters who are not relatively new step-parents, by their own admission, call their DSD's "mini-wives". They have been incredibly critical and scathing of the child in particular.

faire as I said up thread the "blame" is attributed due to the childs motives; which (when spousification is at play) are to fulfil the emotional needs of their parent. That is the consequence of the abuse they have experienced.

So you agree that the child is being blamed?

Therefore, a relatively new stepparent, unaware of this recognised clinical phenomenon, will not know that it stems from abuse. She will describe her perception of the relationship between father and daughter. And get shouted down for victim blaming.

Well that would be because she is victim blaming and need to be aware of it.

I've seen posters give a fleeting acknowledgement that their DP is an inadequate parent who encourages this dynamic, yet then still go on to blame the child for their 'mini wife' behaviour and focus all the animosity on them.

what would happen if be relatively new step parent were to start a thread in that vein?

Recently, it's resulted in bun fights, MNHQ deletions and some unpleasant personal attacks.

When the general atmosphere is more tranquil, a reasoned discussion along the lines you describe does take place. The term mini-wife only popped up a few weeks ago though and it's fair to say it's been contentious since then!

Actually wakey the last thread where the OP was challenged for using the term mini wife still stands.

Well that would be because she is victim blaming and need to be aware of it.

And that's where my own thought process revolves full circle - because at some point, the child is a child no longer.
When, if at all, can the "victim" be held accountable for his or her own, inappropriate behaviour, which stems from childhood abuse?

When, if at all, can the "victim" be held accountable for his or her own, inappropriate behaviour, which stems from childhood abuse?

This thread is about children though Wakey.

I wouldn't like the term any more if it was attached to an adult tbh. Lets face it if the adult DSC is still displaying these behaviours in adulthood then she/he is still the victim as she/he was conditioned to behave this way when she/he was still a child.

The responsibility falls to the parent usually the father in most cases.

faire at least one of the recent MN threads in which the term was used referred to an adult "child". I remember double checking the age in the OP when reading some of the responses as they were no different to the responses relating to much younger DCs.

Lets face it if the adult DSC is still displaying these behaviours in adulthood then she/he is still the victim as she/he was conditioned to behave this way when she/he was still a child.
Would you ever hold a child victim accountable, flossy? Even if their behaviour resulted in the abuse of a subsequent generation? This is the dialemma I'm currently facing - and it's not an easy one to wrestle with

The victim can never be held responsible for their behaviour which stems from abuse!

The children we are talking about are under 18, still children, as are the majority of them on the step-parenting board. It is not their fault. They should not be blamed, but they are. It makes me feel sick to the stomach when I see what is written on here and in blogs that posters link to.

faire at least one of the recent MN threads in which the term was used referred to an adult "child". I remember double checking the age in the OP when reading some of the responses as they were no different to the responses relating to much younger DCs.

Yes, obviously if the behaviour isn't checked it may carry on into adulthood. But what I was saying was that, on this thread, we are talking about children being blamed when, really, they are victims of abuse.

I do see them as victims yes because they suffered at the hands of an adult which does in some cases result in the abused child going on to abuse another. They are accountable by law which does occasionally take in to account their victim status when passing sentence.

However we are not discussing child sex abuse wakey we are discussing MWS and how it blames the child.

flossy I never mentioned sexual abuse!

The dilemma I face relates to MWS. My DSS is currently subject to spousification - he meets many of his mothers needs for an emotionally intimate partner. He is also subject to parentification as he meets her emotional needs for a parent, too.

Her needs stem from the abuse she has experienced - she was spousified by her own mother and continues to fulfil that role now; and she is now abusing her children in the same way. Can she be held accountable? Are parents always to blame? Or is she, as a victim herself, unable to be held accountable?

And what of my DSD? She is now living as an independent adult; when is she accountable for her own behaviour?

Of course they are. Her mother is to blame as she turned her daughter in to a victim of spousification which she is now doing to DS. Does his father have any input in his life and does he challenge/correct this?

In regards to DSD it would depend on what behaviour she is displaying.

The dilemma I face relates to MWS.

Wakey, with respect, why do you use this term? I thought you knew that there is no such 'syndrome'.

The behaviours you are witnessing are real, no one doubts that for one moment and they are complex. But why use this phrase?

The whole purpose of this thread is not to discuss 'spousification' it is simply about the fact that many, many posters find the term MWS offensive.

I'm not sure what use apportioning blame is to a situation as complex as that wakey, but it is of course possible to be a victim and a perpetrator. One does not excuse the other and can merely act as a mitigating factor or explanation for the behaviour.

I don't know why you need to blame someone Wakey, tbh.

I would have thought your DSC need professional help as do their mother. It sounds like a very comlpex situation.

The behaviours you are witnessing are real, no one doubts that for one moment and they are complex. But why use this phrase?

Apologies - I was quoting flossy in the post above mine who had corrected me and told me the thread was about MWS. I was highlighting that it was the topic of my post, too.

Does his father have any input in his life and does he challenge/correct this? along with SocServ, schools, CAFCASS, Councillors, mediators and magistrates, he has tried his best, yes.

One does not excuse the other and can merely act as a mitigating factor or explanation for the behaviour. Harold, that's given me a new perspective, thank you.

Can I ask what the outcome of the professionals input was Wakey?

flossy I've posted a number of threads about my particular circumstances if you are interested; as faire has pointed out, I've derailed this thread enough already!

What is relevant is my experience that emotional abuse is recognised but given little, if any, consideration by family court. So the type of abuse discussed in this thread can go unchallenged throughout childhood.

The behaviours you are witnessing are real, no one doubts that for one moment and they are complex. But why use this phrase?

Apologies - I was quoting flossy in the post above mine who had corrected me and told me the thread was about MWS. I was highlighting that it was the topic of my post, too.

You were referring to this comment, However we are not discussing child sex abuse wakey we are discussing MWS and how it blames the child.

So you are saying that you used the phrase in relation to your own personal experiences because someone else on the thread used it?

I am surprised tbh because I've read a lot of your posts on 'spousification' and 'parentification' where you have articulated quite clearly the difference between them and it all makes sense to me. But I thought that you knew that there was no such thing as 'mini wife syndrome'.

On this thread we are discussing the use of the term, yes.

Many, many posters find it inappropriate at best, child blaming and offensive at worst. I'm surprised to hear you apply to your own relationship with your dsd.

I'm surprised to hear you apply to your own relationship with your dsd.

I wasn't referring to my relationship with my DSD - she and DH have never had a relationship of that sort. I'm clearly not expressing myself well if that's how my post read.

It was a poorly thought out remark to highlight to flossy that she'd got the wrong end if the stick and, like her, I was referring to the unhealthy dynamic between parent and child which she had referred to as MWS. I went in to refer to my DSS and his Mum.

I've apologised. It was a mistake. I mirrored flossys words.

Oh, ok Wakey I thought you didn't agree with the term but that wasn't clear before