to think that 'mini-wife' is problematic for exactly the same reasons that 'jailbait' is problematic?

[ArsenicyOldFace]

In that it transfers responsibility from adult men onto female children?

Thankfully one doesn't hear the word 'jailbait' much any more; society has moved on and we now understand the process of grooming etc

But how do you label that behaviour in a succinct way without referring to the child?

Penelope how would you label it if the child was a boy?

I would probably say that he is treated/behaves like a mini husband!

When MW is used more often that not I is used this way 'SDD is/acts like a mini wife' Rarely have I seen it put as 'DH treats DD like a mini wife'.

Some times a shortened version to describe a complex situation accurately is not available.

A thing I noticed in the cafemom description of "MWS" is that, not only does it barely mention the father's behaviour, but it refers only to the child being given privileges and entitlement.

It singularly fails to mention the child being given burdens, which is a big feature of parentification (and very feeling described on this thread).

When MW is used more often that not I is used this way 'SDD is/acts like a mini wife' Rarely have I seen it put as 'DH treats DD like a mini wife'.

Yes. This.

Or even more commonly; 'Am at the end of tether, can't stand any more of DSD and her mini-wife shenanigans. She is with us EOW for a whole weekend each time and wants to spend time with DP and sit next to him the whole time. She uses soppy terms of affection when she talks to him. It really puts my teeth on edge....' Etc etc.

It also lists the SM's internal feelings as a 'symptom' of the 'syndrome' Pausing which is mightily odd as the 'syndrome' is not supposed to encompass the SM

Yes, I noticed that, Arsenic.

But I agree; That list is very focussed on things a jealous woman might take exception to....

If you try searching online for mini husband syndrome you will only get mini wife results. The term is so blatantly sexist, and so obviously puts the blame on the child.

This is an extract from "Guilty Father Syndrome" or "Guilty Parent Syndrome", maybe that would be a better phrase to use?

Next, educate your spouse about Guilty Parent Syndrome and the long-term, toxic effect it can have on children. Make it perfectly clear that if left unchecked, the children will become resistant to any and all guidance or authority. He needs to understand that rules and accountability make children feel safe and loved.

A lack of boundaries will open the door for everything you don't want for your children: depression, poor grades, drug experimentation and reckless promiscuity. When you love them, you have to parent them. Children understand the difference between showing love and buying affection. Guilty parents need to understand that, too.

It's never too late to get on the same page with your significant other. Decide together what the new rules are for the children, then have a family meeting to discuss expectations, responsibilities and consequences. And by all means, don't let the children bounce back and forth depending on who their favorite parent is. Agree to support each other and never allow the children to disrespect the stepparent or, for that matter, the absent biological parent.

Guilty Parent Syndrome doesn't have to tear your family apart. The more you understand the nature of divorced parents, as well as the nature of stepchildren, the better prepared you can be to keep your family together.

I would be really interested in a sf point of veiw with regarding his dp and her son.

With regards to the Electra / oedipious complex ect, I thought it was a horrible sexualised read.

Five is really young. My dd1 was always trying to sneak in to my bed at that age. I would often wake to find her in the star position in the middle of my bed. I thnk that's natural and a want to be close.

(I speak as someone who positively seethed with resentment when I was first a SM. I can make excuses; I was young, DH had FT sole residence; They were lively little souls But, ultimately, such thinking is negative and leads to a downward spiral. I HATE seeing people do it to themselves.)

This pisses me off so much! The child is 5! What was wrong with explaining simply that she couldn't sleep in his bed because her bed was too small for you?

My DS2(17) has been my shadow since he was born. I couldn't leave him with DH until he was 1. When DH has been away for months at a time, he'd creep in my bed at night. He liked to sit next to me at mealtimes, watching the tele, etc. He even liked to help me clean because it meant being with me. There is a little bit of my face he liked to fiddle with when he was tired! DH never saw him as a rival, he couldn't have cared less.

When we had DSS for access visits, he didn't want to spend time with me, he wanted to spend time with DH, because he is his dad! It never occurred to me to label it as some sort of "condition", or "syndrome"! It seemed natural to me that a child would want to spend time with their parent and the parent would want to spend time with their child!

pausing My understanding is that posters using the term "mini wife" are describing the "spousification" dynamic NOT "parentification".
I think it's important to distinguish between the two.

Five is really young. My dd1 was always trying to sneak in to my bed at that age. I would often wake to find her in the star position in the middle of my bed. I thnk that's natural and a want to be close.

Yes.

Step-parenting is very hard. I often wish I had been a DM first, I think that helps.

very feelingLY described on this

fairenuff that is a great post which I'm going to copy and paste to my friend who is having trouble with her 15 yo dd. Have you got the link?

The linguistic point is the same for both, Wakey, so I didn't repeat it.

But if it helps clarity:

"Mini-wife" can indeed be used in the sentence "A treats his DD like a mini-wife," but it can also be used in the sentence "DD behaves like she's A's mini-wife."

Whereas "A has spousified DD" and "DD has been spousified by A" both firmly state that the action is done by A, and the DD is on the receiving end.

"It also lists the SM's internal feelings as a 'symptom' of the 'syndrome'"

ArsenicyOldFace I totally agree. It seems to me that the 'miniwife' term is almost entirely about negative feelings a step parent has about a child. Which to me is not, at all, the point of a label - a label is about understanding, and finding strategies to combat an issue. To me it would be analagous with calling ADHD 'pain in the ass syndrome'.

I also totally agree with what PausingFlatly said about burdens.

The more I've read of this thread the more I feel like I probably had some of this going on as a child, definitely with regard to the emotional support of a parent.

I personally don't think I see it as automatically deserving of being called abuse, maybe because I'm not sure that the effects are all negative, or because I don't feel I was overly damaged by it - though I'm sure in some cases children are.

There are negative aspects, sure, and definitely one of those would be a difficulty adjusting to the arrival of a new partner, but I guess I feel that my definition of 'abuse' would be a relationship or action that always causes damage, and causes vastly more damage than any positive benefits. Not saying that spousification/parentification couldn't be abusive, but I would see that more as a variation on emotional abuse, and likely to be in tandem with other forms of same, from a parent who is struggling in many ways - there was an example above, I'm sorry I can't remember the poster, where it sounded like the mother there was indeed abusive, and used this as her method, but I do think that would be quite rare.

The thing is, I think it's not uncommon that a child might feel jealous of a new partner. And they might handle that feeling badly, and act out, especially if they have been placed in a position of responsibility that they now feel is threatened - they might try to cling onto ways of being that they feel are 'safe' and that have previously been rewarded. But they are a child. So it's up to the parent to work on problematic behaviour. And if the parent can't or won't, that simply cannot be blamed on the child.

wakey I've just realised your post to me may be about my second post, so again I'll repeat and cover all bases:

"A thing I noticed in the cafemom description of "MWS" is that, not only does it barely mention the father's behaviour, but it refers only to the child being given privileges and entitlement.

It singularly fails to mention the child being given burdens, which is a big feature of parentification and spousification (and very feelingly described on this thread).

The more I've read of this thread the more I feel like I probably had some of this going on as a child, definitely with regard to the emotional support of a parent.

I personally don't think I see it as automatically deserving of being called abuse

Spousification is abuse shaska so what happened with you may or may not have been spousification.

It's possible that is was just poor parenting, poor boundary setting and inappropriate reliance on a child which may not actually be abuse.

The thing is, I think it's not uncommon that a child might feel jealous of a new partner. And they might handle that feeling badly, and act out, especially if they have been placed in a position of responsibility that they now feel is threatened - they might try to cling onto ways of being that they feel are 'safe' and that have previously been rewarded.

Yes, that isn't spousification, that is a normal and natural age appropriate reaction of a child.

Softly this is the article that I read but it was just a quick search under the term mini husband syndrome, so there is probably a lot more out there if your friend would care to have a look.

And add that, since the distinction between parentification and spousification does matter in some instances, it's particularly annoying that people chose to use a third, highly ambiguous term instead.

Fairenuff I know what you're saying - and ok yes, you're right, it is abuse.

I guess what I'm saying, is that I'm not sure that a stepparent who is feeling sidelined by the actions of a child would always make a clear judgement about whether spousification is in fact occurring, or whether it is more a lack of boundaries, the things you mentioned, and essentially more to do with their feelings.

I would be concerned, when using the term, I guess, because to label ones partner abusive is quite a big call. A needed one, sometimes, but a big call. And I guess this is where the miniwife thing comes in - where it DOES seem to blame the child, and be related to the feelings of the stepparent, and I think, if I were to hear someone use that term, who was using it interchangeably with spousification, it might make me doubt their judgement of the situation a little?

Five is really young. My dd1 was always trying to sneak in to my bed at that age. I would often wake to find her in the star position in the middle of my bed. I thnk that's natural and a want to be close.

But why was she coming into bed with you? Was it to meet her own needs, or was it to meet yours?

The action alone can have many motivations - and it's often only apparent once a stepparent begins to get to know the child and understand their motivation - and then it becomes very difficult for the stepmum because the child is taking the lead, and appears to be driving it.

Problem is, it's almost impossible to explain if you're not familiar with the concept; hence use of the term mini-wife in cases where the child is meeting the parents emotional need - it is used to describe the combination of action and motive.

Problem is, it's almost impossible to explain if you're not familiar with the concept; hence use of the term mini-wife in cases where the child is meeting the parents emotional need - it is used to describe the combination of action and motive.

I have only seen it used to describe the child's behaviour. I have not yet seen it used to describe the parents actions and motive.

It is usually used in this way, SDD is a mini wife because:

SDD always sits with him.
SDD always has the front seat.
SDD constantly grooms/kisses DH/DP.
SDD always gets her own way.

It is nearly always reflective of the child's behaviour and hardly ever used in connection to the father. That is why I see it as child blaming.

flossy I'm not talking so it the parents motives, I'm talking about the child's.

If a child has been subject to spousification, then the child is motivated to meet the parents needs. that is the dynamic that the stepparent witnesses; the child sitting on dads lap, grooming him, taking her place at his side in order to meet his needs and gain his approval.

That is the nature of spousification - the child is rewarded for meeting their parents emotional needs, and so begins to display the "spousified" behaviour without any encouragement from the parent.