to think that 'mini-wife' is problematic for exactly the same reasons that 'jailbait' is problematic?

[ArsenicyOldFace]

In that it transfers responsibility from adult men onto female children?

Thankfully one doesn't hear the word 'jailbait' much any more; society has moved on and we now understand the process of grooming etc

I'm not twisting your melon, man

Do any of the people who decided to report-in-advance want to actually discuss the issue?

Nicely, I mean. Because it is interesting when the heat is taken out of the subject. Who knows, maybe a truce could be brokered, helped along by cheesecake an disinterested bystanders?

This all seems fairly pointless as away from the step parenting board the majority of people won't have experienced an environment where this dynamic (call it what you will) exists. so it stands to reason there will be much hand wringing, even more than when someone started the identical conversation on the step parenting board.

Spousification and parentification does exist. These terms are more acceptable in general because they are gender less. They also seem to evoke thoughts of something that is inflicted upon children rather than an action that a child takes.

But seeing as how we're all grown ups here, it seems daft to get so hung up on a term. Those who have experienced the above can quickly identify with "mini wife" and know exactly what each other means. Most women are good and sensible an don't need to spell out the intention of their every word.

It's a shame that new posters or those with a smaller vocabulary are now made to feel like fools for using a term that very rarely has ill intention.

Even sadder that it's been dragged up again on a new thread.

I guess I think that the term 'mini-wife' is sort of automatically oppositional and combative - most people know that having two wives is unlikely to be harmonious, so by using the term you're implying competition and antagonism, and that seems unlikely to help matters, really.

Also, it seems to describe, more, the feelings of the actual wife, or girlfriend, vis a vis the child. Ie, there isn't really a second wife, it just feels that way to someone who feels they aren't receiving time, status or attention that is rightfully theirs. And I don't personally feel that a label that describes ill feelings of one party is ever likely to be a good label.

ALSO (ranting on...) what about all the millions and billions of kids who do amazing jobs helping raise their younger siblings and take on incredible responsibilities - obviously they shouldn't have to, but they do it, all the time. And sure I bet they might struggle for a while if someone new arrives and they don't have those responsibilities anymore, even if they shouldn't really have had to have them to begin with. Are we saying they've all got some sort of terrible syndrome and have been failed by their parents, who were probably just trying to do their best and keep the family running?

Nobody wants to make anyone feel like a fool but this term does not for me accurately describe the dynamic it is used in conjunction with.

I don't see how it's 'sad', it is a debate/discussion just like the hundreds of child parking threads or pram threads on MN.

I don't think it's pointless to discuss it away from the step parenting board at all, (like any subject matter) it should be discussed wherever people feel like doing so if they personally feel affected by it, which I have been in my past.

I absolutely loathe the term "mini-wife". It completely turns my stomach.

I dislike spousification and parentification, too.

These terms blame the children who, in my mind, aren't at fault.

One of the reasons the terminology matters conned is because it does, itself, help direct where emphasis and blame is placed. It almost becomes self-fulfilling.

But seeing as how we're all grown ups here, it seems daft to get so hung up on a term.

Out of interest, conned, would you say the same about 'jailbait'?

I think if a poster is wanting advice then describing the behaviour in full rather than using mini wife will give those responding a clear and more balanced view. I think people can interpret mini wife to mean different things so advice given will be a little all over the place.

Definitely not. Doesn't jailbait refer to a young girl luring a man in to having sex with her which would in turn get him arrested? Ie blaming the way a young girl presents herself for her rape, or statutory rape? I can't draw a single comparison between the two terms.

The comparison I am drawing between the terms is that they both blame girls for the actions of men.

In both cases you could say the terms offer a useful shorthand that is easily understood but I don't think that is a good enough reason to use them.

I used to get called Jailbait. I was 14 when I started going to over 18 nightclubs. Two of the bouncers at my regular haunt knew me and knew how old I was - they never dobbed me in though. I caught them using the term once, apparently a guy had 'expressed an interest' in me and they warned him off. It became a 'nickname' of sorts.

I didn't really catch on to how horrible a name it was until I was older though. It's strange what you let go growing up. I suppose I was just naive.

I dislike spousification and parentification, too what would you prefer to call it?

It does happen and not just to girls.

Spousification is the medical term for what is also known as emotional incest.

Emotional incest defines, very accurately, the dynamic between parent and child - the adults need for an emotionally intimate partner is fulfilled by the child - a role reserved for a spouse or other intimate partner. No blame is associated with the term incest (be it physical or emotional), it does not attribute responsibility onto either party. It defines a relationship dynamic.

When the child is too young to consent, incest may also be child abuse. But between two consenting adults, incest (emotional or physical) is not abuse. Both parties are considered equally responsible.

The slang term mini-wife does seem to accurately describe the dynamic between a father and daughter where there is an emotionally incestuous relationship. Like all slang terms, it is going to offend some people, who prefer the correct/appropriate term is used, or feel the slang term is degrading or blaming in some way.

Before a child is an adult, Incest is abuse. Spousification is abuse. And treating a daughter like a mini-wife is abuse.

Also setting a daughter up to be a mini wife to their father is abuse.

Both parents can be to blame in my opinion.

Gosh Eve

'Emotional incest' Wakey? That's a new one.

'Emotional incest' Wakey? That's a new one.

Covert incest, surrogate spouse, emotional incest - all used interchangeably and frequently in family therapy fields when referring to what has very recently been given the therapeutic definition in international classification systems as Spousification.

Sounds potentially incendiary when deployed around the kitchen table though.

Which is usually why slang terms evolve - they define what is being described in every day language.

I can certainly imagine a parent, having had the term "emotional incest" defined in therapy and accepted that 'diagnosis', using a less emotive, but none-the-less accurate, term like "mini-wife" to describe the diagnosis to other family members, or even the child themselves. And it's quite likely their close family members (a child's paternal grandparents, for instance) will recognise it as familiar - ive been saying for months that you treat her like a girlfriend, not your daughter, but you wouldn't listen!

I agree wakey. If I told a friend that I was concerned that my step daughter was suffering spousification they'd look at me like a lunatic if I say "you know what, I'm worried. It's almost as though she's a mini wife sometimes. Know what I mean?" Then it would be much clearer.

I think that, to many people, 'mini-wife' is deeply emotive, however.

There are also a lot of malfunctioning stepfamilies who never get near a therapist. For them, the slang, with no following insight, will not be helpful. Not at all.